to think that criticism of the school run is a form of sexism?

[Handay]

There seems to have long been a popular narrative that people taking their children to school by car are clogging up the roads with unnecessary journeys and delaying working commuters.

Most of these journeys are done by women.

It is a legal requirement for children to go to school, just as most people are contractually obliged to go to work. For many women, their obligation will fall across both aspects in that they will drop their children at school and then continue to work.

Why then are one set of people using a car in order to travel to somewhere they are obliged to be, criticised? There are, especially in cities, probably lots of car journeys that are "unnecessary" in the sense that the people making them could travel by alternative means. Why are women and children's journeys categorised as somehow less important than those of other road users and why are they repeatedly told that they should not be on the roads?

Just one recent example of this here on Jeremy Vine this week:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00035rk

It is a problem. And no, I don't think the objections are necessarily sexist; they are often made on very valid grounds.

Our local secondary is in the next village (the village in which we used to live). At school drop-off time the main road running through that village is impassable. It's for this reason that when we came to move house, I refused to consider any property within close vicinity of a school.

I've personally witnessed appalling behaviour, inconsiderate and downright dangerous driving during school drop-off in particular. Cars parked with abandon across and even in people's driveways. Cars jostling over parking spots with their drivers having vocal rows with each other. Drivers parking in the [private] car park of a local business without permission. On one occasion we were notified by DC's primary school that a car parked there by a parent had skidded on the ice on leaving (at prime school drop-off time, before any of the businesses located on the site were open), hit and damaged a taxi from the company whose car park it was, and had driven off without an apology or exchange of insurance details.

This kind of inconsiderate behaviour is deplorable. It's really no wonder the local people affected by it object to it strongly (although some have damaged parents' cars parked near the school and that is also not on). It's not a question of gender; nor is it a question of people's individual reasons for using their cars to travel to school or not. It's about basic good manners.

I think the answer is a USA-style school bus system, where children's safety is paramount, buses take priority on the road, and it's illegal to overtake them especially when stationary and kids are being let on or off the bus. It would save myriad problems: especially in a small, crowded country like this.

@blueskiesovertheforest I've always just assumed it was about 3 miles but a google search confirms its 2.7 miles from my house to school. And it is the local school for us unfortunately. Though it's a really great primary school so no issues with the travelling. I'm not aware of any primary schools doing buses. I don't think they exist. Though even if there was it wouldn't be an option for us

We manage to do this in Scotland

You seemingly still get hacked off by inconsiderate parkers though.

I never park(ed) inconsiderately, I always parked somewhere where it wouldn't cause any issue and walked the remainder of the distance.

We would have walked every school run, except we didn't get a single school on our choices list.

I absolutely agree schools and parents should be working together to stop people who are causing difficulty for local residents. However campaigns would be better served focussing on that and not on people who have to do the school run by vehicle, whether that's because of distance, going on elsewhere etc.

It is very rare to find folk who have made a conscious choice to give up their car and use alternative methods of transport

Actually the ability to walk DD to school was the big driver (pun intended!) in moving house. Sadly the system didn’t work for us and we went back to being a two car household.

I have always needed to drive as have 7 minutes to get from school to work, which is a 7 minute drive
Currently in maternity leave and was so excited to not drive. Then my ds injured his foot and while physio encourages exercise, the one mile to school and then one mile home later is too far yet. Gutted. I always park a minute or so away, don't understand anyone who drops off in school Rd as a rush to work isn't an excuse, takes longer to get off the Rd in the school traffic than walk the minute to the nearby car park.

No I'm sorry OP but I think you are massively reaching to blame the patriarchy on this one

It's very much even Stevens at our school with men and women dropping off , yes there are probably a higher ratio overall for women but the reasons why are heavily documented in socio economic literature.

The reality is that school traffic (of which I'm a part of but due to changing schools in the summer we ended up at a school that needs to be driven to ...its very much not walkable distance ) does clog up the road. It is the case that the traffic gets easier in school holidays

There are still lots of sexist sentiments but this simply isn't one.

Now...by all means comment on the fact that schools still seem to have archaic ideas about ie being mum at home and that mum can drop everything for meetings at the golden hour of 3.30 pm then you have something concrete but this is looking for reasons to find sexism and it's just not there

Ds has never gone to a school close enough to be able to walk to it. His mainstream nursery and primary were 8 miles away. The local mainstream would have been entirely unsuitable for his needs. He now goes in a taxi on his own to a special school 35 miles away because the local authority don't provide for children like him locally.
The biggest problem in my village are commuters who don't live in the village, using it to park in because they don't want to pay the parking charges at a station car park.

This is a really interesting point OP YANBU.

We live on the edge of our village so I have to drive through the village to get to work. When my DS starts school in September, hopefully at the village school, 2 days a week we will walk but the 3 days I work I will drive him to school and then go straight to work. I think school drop off is 8.45-9.00 and it’s a 20 minute walk, so I won’t have time to walk home, pick the car up and drive to work. I’ve been very lucky that I have a short commute and my boss will allow me to change my hours so I can drop him off at school. But I still need to drive him so I can get to work on time after! My DH’s work is not so flexible and he has to leave the village by 7.30, although he may be able to do the school pick ups sometimes, my mum has already volunteered to do it when he can’t.

at the suggestion that children should do breakfast clubs to allow their parents more time to walk home for their car. In our case I have to drive past the school on the way to work anyway! And there are long waiting lists for wraparound care at the village school, something that will only worsen as the school is now two form entry.

Surely “socioeconomic reasons” = the patriarchy?

I don't see it as a male or female thing. Anyone who drives to school unnecessarily hacks me off.

One of the main reasons traffic is easier in the school holidays is that quite a lot of people work in schools... In fact, I can't think of any other 'industry' that closes down regularly in the way that schools do.

I had never thought about it. But I think you right, you do hear people complaining about "school mums driving their little darlings to school". And it's' subtle, but you'r right, there's a sense that women and children should walk, even if its inconvenient, because it's "good for them".

The only thing I would say in mitigation is that to be fair, other non necessary journeys don't tend to happen all within the same 20 minutes of the day. Work and school are really the only things where everyone who does either of those things are on the road at the same time.

I have to get the children to school at 8.45 then get to work by 8.55. I'd love to walk, but if I walked to school then back home for the car, I'd be at least 15 minutes late for work every day. I do always take the car home after I finish work and walk to school because I have time to do so. I also always park considerately and sensibly!

theSnuffster breakfast club would sort that problem - I assume your school doesn't have one.

Children who walk to school are at an advantage because they concentrate better between the start of school and first break.

School buses for any primary child who lives more than 1.5 miles away from their nearest primary via a route objectively safe to walk (i.e with pavements and no national speed limi/ higher than 30mph limit roads to cross).

Breakfast clubs to allow drop off up to an hour before school starts.

Permit and disabled badge holders only parking within 200 meters of any school, with the exception of teachers car park and other private car parks.

All children go to the local primary school unless they need a non mainstream school.

Trust children to walk to and from school on their own before the ridiculously high ages some schools require for arse covering/ because it's easier that way.

cadburyegg the reason breakfast clubs are suggested is the number of people saying that they have to drive their child on their way to work.

Until a couple of years ago where I live (only my youngest is still at primary) when I did my volunteer parking duty outside the school nobody drove their children to school on a regular basis - it only happened occasionally if a child was on crutches or on the vanishingly rare occasion someone overslept. Children walked on their own or took the bus and played outside - unsupervised but knowing where to go if help were needed - for up to half an hour, depending when they arrived. Only the large porch of the school was open - at 7:45 the main school door was opened, at 8am it was locked.

In the UK nobody would leave their children to play unsupervise and you'd never get parents to volunteer to stand outside from an hour before school, so breakfast club would be needed.

Now here we have more only children coming through and being driven in by Very Important dad's, who strangely can drop their child off at 7:59am but are far, far too Busy and Important to get to school at 7am, do traffic/ parking duty outside and then go to work. Strangely is still mums who are on our 3rd or 4th child and also going straight to work afterwards still doing the traffic duty we started as sahms with one primary and two or three preschool children, and hoped to have been able to hand on the batton for by now...

I park in a free, rather muddy, gravel car park when I do traffic duty and still drive on to work afterwards.

Some people (where we are it's almost all dads proud of their one counterproductive contribution to parenting probably) just have the mindset that they couldn't possibly be socially responsible because they are too important and busy.

"All children go to the local primary school unless they need a non mainstream school."

Most children with sen are in mainstream but the local school may not be suitable or not welcoming of children with sen.

People shouldn't drive their children to school if it could be easily walked and the journey is just to take the DC to school. Walking is better for the children and better for the environment and makes the roads around school safer.

Not all school run journeys are going to fall into this category though. Some people drive because the school drop off is part of their commute or because their DC or parents have disabilities and the walk is too challenging for them or because they have under 5s and the walk would take too long or because they live too far away or because they have to go somewhere immediately after the drop off or pick up. All of which are valid reasons.

One of the main reasons traffic is easier in the school holidays is that quite a lot of people work in schools

It's also because a lot of parent's take time off to be with their DC so you lose a lot of the work journeys as well as the school run. Public transport is also noticeably quieter during school holidays for this reason.

Most children with sen are in mainstream but the local school may not be suitable or not welcoming of children with sen.

May not be suitable... not welcoming.... That would be seems as unacceptable. The local school has a legal duty to offer education for all children, no excuse. They don't get to pick and choose pupils. Children go to the closest school to their house. End of discussion.

I wonder if I live near you blueskies

Seen , not seems!

Spikeyball this is only a hypothetical ideal which isn't going to happen because there's no political will whatsoever in any sensible direction.

So in the ideal set up where all children go to the local primary, all primaries will be able to adapt to the needs of the local children with sen who are best served by being in mainstream.

Not in walking distance. Not school spaces in walking distance.

We drive, park then walk a further 15 minutes.

Would live to walk to school. Would save a fortune.

Unfortunately, this isn't possible.

We pay road tax. We have as much right to use the roads as anyone else (legally of course, not talking about bad parking near schools ect).

"May not be suitable... not welcoming.... That would be seems as unacceptable. The local school has a legal duty to offer education for all children, no excuse. They don't get to pick and choose pupils. Children go to the closest school to their house. End of discussion."

Children with a ehcp have the legal right to go to whichever mainstream school is best for them and that right should remain.

NotComingBackAnytimeSoon from your 10:28 post maybe, though I think our experience applies approximately in a lot of northern Europe.