To think all schools should enforce 48hr rule after sickness?

[bobstersmum]

I know the NHS advises at least 48hrs absence from work or school after sickness or diarrhea. Some schools say the same. But some, like ours, which has over 600 pupils, say 24. Which leads the slack parents to think that probably 12 hours is OK and send their child after being sick the afternoon before. We all had what I believe was norovirus at the end of November and it was awful. The school was overrun with it. But it seems to be back again. I have been really poorly this last week with a chest infection and double ear infection and I am only getting by on loads of meds. I am absolutely dreading the dc bringing it home again. I know you can be immune for some time but that will definitely have lapsed now.
Why on earth do schools not enforce the full 48 hrs!

I do actually agree that we should wait 48 hours, but calling parents "slack" for sending them in sooner is a bit presumptuous. Childcare and work commitments may be the reason for this.

How would you enforce it and how do you prove when the sickness started if it happened at home? Genuine questions as I'm with you in principle.

Depends why they are sick.

Food poisoning - not contagious
Asthma attack - not contagious
Coughing fit - not contagious
Pregnancy (it happens) - not contagious.

Not everything requires quarantine and parents should be clued up enough to know what is and what isnt a risk to others.

I have been really poorly this last week with a chest infection and double ear infection

^^ unlikely to have anything to do with the Norovirus which is a stomach bug.

www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/norovirus#symptoms

You're likely to have norovirus if you experience:

suddenly feeling sick
projectile vomiting
watery diarrhoea

Some people also have a slight fever, headaches, painful stomach cramps and aching limbs.

There always seems to be two 'waves' of noro if you had it first time round you'd be unlikely to catch it again in the same year.

We had it in November then DP caught it in December and me and DS just had very mild symptoms eg nausea and aches.

Roll on the norovirus vaccine!

Isn’t norivirus spread from the fine mist that the act of projectile vomiting creates? Surely a kid that has had one episode of vomiting with no temperature doesn’t need excluding. IME the kids catch it from the ones that fall ill in school and puke wherever they stand, then don’t wash hands properly etc.

My point about me being currently ill is if I was also vomiting I wouldn't be able to take the painkillers and antibiotics I need. Then would definitely not be able to look after my dc.
Aren't they slack parents if they send their children to school not fully recovered? In the winter months when there is a vomiting epidemic in a school, if your child is sick i think you can safely assume its the bug.
Maybe enforce isn't the right word, but when a school says they can return after 24 hrs which is different to NHS I don't think that's right?

And my comment about the slack parents might have been harsh but I actually overheard a mum in my child's class yesterday telling another mum that her daughter had been sick on the way out of the door that morning.

Our old school before we moved didn't have any policy at all. Kids were allowed to come in if their parents wanted to send them in even if they had been sick.

I actually overheard a mum in my child's class yesterday telling another mum that her daughter had been sick on the way out of the door that morning.

Could be anxiety - not contageous

You're focusing on other people too much, let them parent appropriately, with all the facts to hand, rather than snippets of overheard conversation

Childcare and work commitments may be the reason for this.

And very stupid and selfish reasons they are. Take time off to look after your child. School isn't childcare.

A few years ago I was at a training event for governors on attendance - the issue of the 48 hour "rule" came up. There is nothing in law to allow a school to legal refuse to admit the pupil, it would be classed as an illegal exclusion!!!

I’m 100% with you OP. I don’t want my kids bringing home a sickness bug because someone else sent their kid in before they were fully recovered. It’s selfish

To be fair tho schools are under so much pressure to raise attendance rates that many of them are telling parents that ask that it’ll be fine if they’ve stopped being sick. I know ours does. Obv in the long run it has a negative effect on attendance rates but they’re not clever enough to work that out lol

@Cwtches123 that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. There are gov guidelines for illness exclusion. Of course they are supposed to protect the other children from infection. In fact it’s actually written into the early years framework. Not sure if it’s in a document for older kids but the gov guidelines are good enough I reckon

I'd agree with you but the parents who want to get round this will just give a difference sickness absence reason. They can't police whether little Johnny has suspected impetigo or a vomiting bug.

But secondary schools don’t enforce them at all, neither do workplaces. So, playing devils advocate, why is it so important for primary schools?

It does annoy me when people ignore these guidelines, but I agree with some pps; how would you enforce this? I know some adults who admit they don’t miss two days of work after vomiting too. One of them is a doctor! Not in a hospital or a GP, so a lot of office based work, but still.

People rarely challenge each other if they show up for work a day after being sick ime. I have done so in the past and I now have a reputation as a germ phobe!

Our school only allows five days ill a year before referral to the council attendance team. That policy isn't going to stop the spread of bugs tbh.

Exactly dakaria. There is a lot of pressure to enforce attendance, so people are far less concerned about spreading germs. Also, most places I have worked do not allow paid time off to care for others, so if you have no AL left, you could lose pay, which is fine if you have savings etc, but many people live hand to mouth these days.

@PotteringAlong I do believe it should be stricter in primary schools than it is in high schools or workplaces. Firstly children in primary school are more vulnerable as they’re younger but also they are more likely to spread it with not washing hands, coughing, snotting everywhere.

As an adult if I had diarrhoea I could wash hands thoroughly and the chance of passing it on would be very low I reckon.

@Looneytune253 I agree it is crazy but the legal advice we were given by our LA (in Wales so may be different) was that it was "guidance" but that we were powerless to legally exclude.

I think if schools could rely on parents using common sense, and not be selfish and send children in when they are actually ill or contagious, then schools might be a little more relaxed about ‘other’ scenarios (eg asthma, migraine sickness).

I had my ds off recently after being sick. He threw up, once, in after school club. By the time I could get to him (30 minutes), he was fine, sitting eating tea at school. Came home, ate tea at home as well, all fine. Clearly right as rain the next morning, but school enforced the full 48 hours off.

He’d had a migraine, and been sick after getting too hot in after school club (actually hot, not a temperature). He was not ill in the slightest, and if school had actually believed him to be ill, they had no business taking him to sit with other children eating, nor to actually feed him (chicken tikka wrap iirc).

I do understand their position, however, as over the 8 years be had children at that school, I’ve seen and heard many other parents taking the piss and sending ill children in because of the inconvenience (and many parents bemoaning the fact that we are treated as infants, and not allowed to use common sense, due to the aforementioned pisstakers).

There isn’t a right answer, is there? there will always be some who take the piss and don’t think about the consequences for others, and there will always be some who are inconvenienced unnecessarily because of this.

Actually some strains of food poisoning can be contagious. The truth is, you can’t honestly tell what causes it with testing.

If I had a pound for every time a parent tried to send a child to me with ‘teething’ and the amount of times my children or I have caught ‘teething’ is extraordinary.

You know when you have a contagious sick bug and when it's just a kid throwing up.
By slack I presume you mean "parent who doesn't keep their kid wrapped in cotton wool and off school for a fortnight after the slightest sniffle"

@haventgotallday nope, I don't mean wrap them in cotton wool. I mean if your kid has been throwing up then follow nhs advice and the 48hr rule so that vulnerable people don't catch it, ffs!