To ask if you would do anything, child friendship woes.

[dublinmammy1982]

I have 2 DS's, aged 7 and 10. They are friends with two siblings. They are in the same classes at school, and in a sports team together.
The older two are very good friends. They do argue, but have a very solid friendship and are true "besties" which is lovely.
The younger two are where I have my issues. My DS adores this boy. He is always first choice when I ask him if he wants to invite a friend over.
As the older two are so close, he spends quite a bit of time at our house. If big bro comes, younger bro comes too. Which DS 2 is happy about, and he would cause Merry hell if he didn't come unless there was a damn good reason.
But, I don't think this child likes my DS very much. It appears to me that he just tolerates him. They'll play together, but the boy often moans at my child, saying he's doing something wrong, for instance. I don't see him being outright mean to him, but I do see little digs, and the child will tell on him to me about fairly inconsequential things.
At school there's a little group of them that play together. It seems that my DS and this other boy vie for top spot (they are both very academically and physically able). But I know from speaking with teachers that my child is kind and treats his friends and other classmates well. I also know the other boy isn't always so.
My DS has told me previously that this boy had bullied him a bit. I spoke to his teacher who had not seen any particular incidents, but said they would monitor it. DS says now there is no problem anymore.
In their mutual sport, I see the same kind of attitude. DS seems to hero-worship the child, and the boys is not that nice back.
I don't want to paint my child as an angel because he's not! But I see him putting lots of effort into the friendship but for fairly little return and it breaks my heart.
If the older ones weren't friends, then it would be much easier. But it's really really hard to try and discourage them spending time together. DS has other good friends who he spends time with, so he doesn't rely on this boy.
Their mum is oblivious, and tells me BOTH her DC ask to see both of mine. In fact, the younger one asked to come over today on his own. We declined as we were busy.

Gosh this was long, sorry! But, should I just let them get on with it as my DS seems happy? Or try and discourage the friendship but I have no idea how due to the sibling situation. Wwyd?

I think you have to stop having the younger kid over. Just be honest with the mum.

he would cause Merry hell if he didn't come unless there was a damn good reason.

Doesn't matter.

You need to get a hold on the situation immediately. You say yourself the boy isn't nice to DS and that he's bullied him in the past.

YOU have to show your son what a healthy relationship is. ....and this isn't.

Start asking other children over instead. When he asks about this boy coming over, say he's busy.

His older brother's friendship must be allowed to be let alone...it's a separate issue. Just because the older boys get on well, does not mean the younger two do...and they don't.

If you need to explain anything to the Mother, just say something like "Tom's not feeling up to a playdate today"

Thanks @Dieu. The major problem with that, though, is that DS would go ballistic if his friend didn't come too. It would make no sense to him. I couldn't even lie about it as they would speak to each other before or the day after and realise that he's just not been invited. That's why I feel so stuck in how to manage this.

Hmm I'm not sure, I think I'd leave it be whilst keeping an eye. It sounds like they are friends but the other buy is just a bit of a whinger, DS will hopefully see this for himself as he gets older and sort it out in his own way. A kid who is vying for top spot in a social group is less likely to need intervention to protect him from someone not always being nice. But obviously keep observing as you are.

I would not interfere but monitor. Things change. Bullying at school stopped and I presume is not going on at home. The boys may grow apart or closer. Your son has other friends so encourage those (healthier) friendships. If something happens you don’t like, try to discuss it with your son but let him form his own opinion. I think stopping contact may actually have the reverse effect: the classic absence-heart-fonder.

I think you should just leave it. Parents interference often makes a situation (that the kids were working their way through) worse in my experience. If you start talking to his dm then she will feel protective and probably withdraw the older ds from his friendship by making excuses.

Thanks all. I'm glad that some of you feel that monitoring is the right thing to do. It would be so so hard to stop out of school play dates with this boy, as my DS would be absolutely gutted. They pretty much always happen at my house as the other parents work long hours so opportunity to go to their house is limited.
School know that I have concerns and they keep an eye on the situation but there have been no issues in school time for a long time. When they are at my house I keep a close eye on things and will step in if I feel it's needed.
My DS is a socially confident child, and has other good solid friendships which I encourage as much as I can. I also "check in" with DS regularly to see how he and this child are getting on.

I think you need to do what DS wants. However, you could always ask if he wants the friend you mention to come and play, or if he’d rather child x, y or z.
Then if he’s gone for another child, you ask the older one, and just say ‘would older child like to come and play, we’ll need to have younger one another time I’m afraid’ and also maybe say they’re not always playing brilliantly, so maybe best to sometimes not always have both.

It's a manufactured friendship - the other boy is being forced, and thats not fair on him.

Is he actaully given the choice by his parents, if he wants to go on a play date to your house ?

This is the one occasion being a helicopter dm is fine. An activity in the room you intend to be in. Pull him up on any behaviour you aren't happy with. If he feels he isn't getting his own way /being a bully - he may stop taking you up on the joint invites..
Ime...

@PlainSpeakingStraightTalking the other child asks to come to our house, and asks if he can invite DS to his house too. When I pick DS up he'll regular go to his mum and say "can we go to (DS's) house today.
I see why you're saying that, I totally agree that it could certainly be that way. But the Will seems to come from both sides. They chose to play together at school too

You say your son is happy. If you really believe that, it’s not a problem.

The other boy might not like your child very much: you think he’s lovely, of course you do, but we can’t force everyone to like them. I don’t like every perfectly nice person I meet. Maybe he’s made to come along because it’s convenient for mum and he resents it. She says they both ask to come but she would, wouldn’t she?
Just keep an eye when they’re together, any unpleasant incidents, pick him up on them there and then and tell his parents but be sure you do the same vice versa (hard to be objective when you don’t like someone very much

You said the other parents work long hours, are you then providing childcare for them and its convenient that their younger son goes with their brother

Yup, after the post about parents working long hours my first thought was that you are convenient childcare... I would be encouraging a little bit of distance for DS2. Parents of other kids may deliberately be ignoring their younger son's opinion.

Maybe he’s just not a very nice little boy? So.. if your son wasn’t having him over for the double date, wouldn’t you both choose someone else?

Yeah, take that’s what I was trying to say.

My DS's first choice of friend to invite over is always, without fail, this boy., no matter what big bro is up to!
Regarding the childcare issue, this was definitely a bit of an issue initially, but we were very blunt with the other parents about it and it stopped. We will now only do things that suit us as a family.

Then I would monitor the situation, and pull up the younger boy on any behaviour you're not happy with. Your son shouldn't have to put up with this in his own home, so treat them as you would your own whenever they're at your place