Re rent payment?

[newbelandlord]

I really stretched myself to purchase a buy to let flat. Our son is at university and the idea is that when he’s ready to leave home he can buy the flat from me at the mortgage cost (we had to put 25% deposit down).

We engaged a letting agent to manage everything for a cost of 10% of the rent (the rent is £850 pcm).

The tenant has lived there since October last year. Since he moved in he has never paid the rent on time and usually in part payments over the month. Every time he makes a payment the agent automatically deducts the full charge of £85 and I have to chase them to claim it back.

When he doesn’t pay on the 1st of the month I get what looks like a standard email from the agent saying they have called and emailed him and are waiting for an answer.

I’m getting fed up with the tenant, I appreciate the rent is a lot of money but why take it on if he can’t afford it? We did agree to delay the payment payment date by a couple of weeks so it tied in with his salary payment. I’m also getting fed up with agent for apparently not giving a toss.

I’m tempted to go round the flat and explain to the tenant that we’re not landlords with a huge portfolio and we need the rent to pay the mortgage.

I would add though that the agent has carried out an inspection of the flat which came back as good.

Should we just suck up the late payments given that, so far, he has always paid in full? I’ve watched enough debt collector type programmes to appreciate it could be much, much worse.

It might help to change the day of the month the rent is paid. Find out if your tenant gets paid weekly, monthly or 4 weekly? If your tenant gets paid on the last day of the month ensure your standing order is paid on the same day or following day. ManAge the property yourself and check your bank account the day the rent is due.

Motoko - you’re not interfering with a witness ffs you are allowed to talk to the people taking food out of your mouth. I honestly do not see the difference between this and theft. Try taking something from Sainsburys and explaining as you go out the door you’ll pay next week and then don’t

I'd visit the letting agent and discuss this face to face with them. I'd also arrange to meet the tenant on the same trip and discuss this with him as well.

Then hopefully you will have a better feel for what is going on. If it is a bad tenant then I'd be hassling constantly and giving him his 2 months notice as soon as you can. If he does a flit, that's frustrating but at least he's gone and you can relet to better tenants. You will also still have his security deposit to offset against his debts

Motoko - you’re not interfering with a witness ffs you are allowed to talk to the people taking food out of your mouth

What on earth are you talking about? Interfering with a witness? I was saying that the tenant is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" (a legal term), and therefore, the landlord is not allowed to just turn up on their doorstep for a chat. Legally, the landlord needs to give the tenant 24 hours written notice, and the tenant does not have to agree to it. If for some reason the whole thing ends up in court (for eviction proceedings for example) the tenant could make a complaint about the landlord not allowing them their "quiet enjoyment".

I was making a comparison it’s not a criminal offence to knock a door and say pay the money you owe. Tenant/Landlord relationship even in court doesn’t have any special privileges any more than if you owed me a tenet I’d be entitled to ask you for it

Get rid of the agent and get rid of the tenant.
When the tenant asks you for a reference say you did not renew the contract as he consistently failed to meet his contractual obligation to pay the rent on time.

You don't seem to understand that in law, the LL cannot just rock up at the house. She has to, by law give 24 hours written notice.

The tenant, is protected by law. The LL would be going against what the law says she's allowed to do, and the tenant could complain of harassment. If OP doesn't want to get into trouble, and be on the wrong side of the law, she needs to follow due process.

Motoko of course you're right that the tenant must give expressed permission for access to the house.

But I don't know if it would constitute harassment to knock on the door, once, to speak to them, with no intent to access the property.

Not saying I'd feel comfortable doing that - but then I've had no reason to.

It certainly doesn’t consistute harassment knockingbthe foir and asking for your money you are owed to be paid to you ? How exactly is that an unreasonable action ? As a tenant you are not protected from the realities of life. The law doesn’t save people from confrontation in a non threatening manner.

I give up. If you don't understand the LAW Inliverpool1, go and have a read about tenant's rights on the Shelter website.

I’d absolutely talk to the tenant. Go though the standard channel of giving them notice that you would like to talk to them and arrange a time to.

The reason I’d talk to them directly is because I wouldn’t trust a letting agent as far as I could throw one. You’ve only got their word for it that the tenant isn’t paying on time - it could well be that they are keeping the money and giving it to you in dribs and drabs because they’re earning interest all the time the cash is in their bank account. At the very least, if the tenant really IS paying late, they aren’t doing anything to rectify the situation - the tenant should be paying by DD/SO and warnings being issued about late payment.

At least that way you’ll have heard both sides and can decide whether it’s the tenant, the agent or both you need to get rid of.

Knocking on the door and demanding money would be highly unreasonable and unlawful.

However, knocking on the door, once, to introduce yourself as the landlord and giving them your contact details and asking if they would like to set an agreed time/date to talk about the tenancy would be more reasonable.

But erring on the side of caution, I'd put communication in a recorded delivery letter. I've never turned up unannounced to a property and never without a tenant's expressed permission; that's not only lawful, it's respectful.

But that's all hypothetical anyway; I'm sure, OP, once you bring up your concerns with your agent you'll either feel reassured or want to change agents.

It certainly doesn’t consistute harassment knockingbthe foir and asking for your money you are owed to be paid to you ? How exactly is that an unreasonable action ?

It is when you can email or phone and ask exactly the same question.

Most things are better handled face to face ... knocking a door and demanding money you are owed is not illegal. I don’t what planet some of you live on I really don’t. If you honestly think you can take services from someone else and not pay and they are going to be hiding behind an email or telephone worrying about upsetting you ? Shelter can bleat all they like if you are stealing, you’re going to get confronted about it.

Most things are better handled face to face

Rubbish. It depends entirely on the specific situation.

knocking a door and demanding money you are owed is not illegal.

It is if it’s deemed harassment which it could well be. There are other options to try before going to the property without notice.

I don’t what planet some of you live on I really don’t

Planet real world. With laws and shit.

If you honestly think you can take services from someone else and not pay and they are going to be hiding behind an email or telephone worrying about upsetting you ?

It’s not to avoid upsetting them. It’s to protect yourself from being accused of harassment if you need a court to order an eviction for you. Why on earth would you want OP to do anything that risks delaying her getting possession of her property?

ILoveMaxiBondi - everythingbtrats wrong with the world right there in your post. If people just talked to each other they could stop lining lawyers and agents pockets. People have lost all communication skills and balls so they will have to pay

Ok Liverpool. Whatever you say.

To subvert a MN trope, you don’t have a tenant problem, you have an agent problem. Get tough with them and let them handle the tenant, God knows you’re paying them enough.

@Motoko actually, it would be good to understand the law here because your posts seem very matter of fact.

Knocking on the door to talk to the tenant doesn't appear to constitute access so not sure you'd need to give 24 hours notice. In reality you would probably do that so you don't have a wasted journey.

Also, I'm not sure broaching the subject of the rent payments could stand up in court as harassment? Think you'd have to be pretty heavy handed to get to that point. Again, my opinion.

Most landlords who did this would approach it like a PP mentioned... just checking in / just saying hi.

The law is there to protect the tenant quite rightly but not from well intentioned landlords with reasonable questions, surely.

I agree that it might not be considered to be requiring access, but would OP really want to discuss it on the street? It's in OP's best interests to adhere strictly to the law, to protect herself. We don't know what the tenant's like, he's already being unreasonable, by paying the rent in bits and pieces, even though the due date has been changed to his pay day. So if he's feeling defensive, he might start being more difficult.

@motoko as pp says turning up at the door to discuss would not generally constitute harassment or even interference with quiet enjoyment. Who is it the tenant would complain to about loss of quiet enjoyment anyway, that’s a civil matter.

Funny you feel the need to lecture op on the law when you don’t know anything about it yourself

Bottom line is surely that OP needs to get the Letting Agent on the case- it is their poor management that has enabled the situation with the tenant to arise. She is only thinking of approaching the tenant directly as the Letting Agent has allowed this to continue.

At the risk of being called naive, stupid, etc., I have another question.

This month the tenant has paid less than half the rent due.

I sent a stinging email to the agent and got a ‘we are calling, texting and emailing him’ response.

Realistically, what else should the agent be doing?

why bother reminding him of his rent obligation if there's no teeth to the reminder? he will know that he needs to pay his rent.. a reminder without a clear timeline of accountability/action plan.

They should have a standard, legally robust procedure that they communicate with you and the tenant.

The ones I've seen always look the same, they should have one that says something like this:

I.e. a text, call and email saying that if the outstanding balance of £? isn't in the bank account within 3 working days (date X) then a Section 21 notice of eviction will be served on working day 4 (date Y). based on date X and Y, the eviction date will be Z. a checkout report for damage and leftover belongings will be scheduled for date Z and anything outstanding (like keys not returned within working hours) will be added to the outstanding bill, which will be taken out of the deposit whilst court proceedings are started to pursue the rent arrears.

... and, it goes without saying, they should actually DO what they've explained as their standard procedure. so that Section 21 notice (or whatever next step you've prior agreed with them) should actually appear per the timeline.

normally, the landlord would have agreed what a normal next step is (e.g. 1 reminder, allow up to 7 working days for all the balance to be in beyond the rent due date)... for this tenant, you should have been asked how you want to handle it in future.

the agency really are not on the ball here!