To not understand why bullfighting still happens

[Holiday1578]

Saw an upsetting picture on Twitter of the bullfighter and some official looking people in the front row laughing as a bull collapses and dies
Is anyone from or live in a country where bullfighting still takes place ? I don’t understand why there aren’t enough people against it for it to stop

Would you argue the same for little girls being held down by their aunties while some old crone slices up their genitals with no anaesthetic in Egypt or Somalia or Indonesia Spengler?

When is barbarism acceptable because of ‘protecting heritage’ and when is it just plain old indefensible barbarism? Why do some communities get to defend their heritage and not others? What kind of fuckwits want to defend deliberate cruelty and barbarity purely for entertainment’s sake anyway? Would you be harrested for doing the same thing to a dog or a pig in your back garden in Spain? Of course you would. Take the ‘art’ out of it and it’s no different.

Arrested.

she said that the dog would be fine "dogs don't feel the cold"

I find Spanish attitudes towards dogs really tragic. Read about Spanish hunting dogs, a lot of people kill them after hunting season so they don’t have to take care of them the rest of the year

Would you argue the same for little girls being held down by their aunties while some old crone slices up their genitals with no anaesthetic in Egypt or Somalia or Indonesia Spengler? obviously not, and the fact that you can compare the two shows how muddled your thinking is on the matter.

No Spendler it really really doesn’t. The fact that you CAN’T compare the two and care more for the right to defend tradition is rather worrying though. Think about it.

@Ellenborough think about what? I bet the majority of people who get irate about bullfighting eat meat.

Oh for goodness sake spengler I’m sure they do. Can you not separate the fact that there will be some suffering as an (almost) unavoidable side effect of meat farming, with killing purely for sport, pleasure or art, and having an audience watch that killing for entertainment?

If you read what I’ve said upthread it’s clear I’m not condoning cruelty in farming. But you don’t have to reject meat eating to have an issue with bullfighting, or any other blood sport that’s purely designed to give people a thrill.

I don’t think that anyone’s ‘right’ to practise something as part of their heritage or religion or culture (that would, in slightly different circumstances be considered barbaric, abusive and illegal) should trump an animal’s or a human’s right to not be tortured, brutalised, abused or have bits of their genitals or anything else pierced, slashed or cut off that they have not personally consented to in the full understanding of what will happen and why. Unless it has been shown to be an absolute medical necessity, obviously.

The one exception for me is the right to farm animal produce. But as intelligent people with a conscience and the wherewithal to mitigate suffering, (if not remove it completely) I believe we should farm, slaughter and eat our animal produce more mindfully, more compassionately and as ethically as is possible. And if we hunt for game then that should be done ethically also.

It's actually banned in Catalonia, but still goes on in France!! So the culture thing mmm. It's something that makes me very sad indeed, if you want to join forces and go and protest, let's do it!!

I think you have put it very articulately Ellen
And meat for food is a very different issue to animals being tortured for entertainment

It isn’t really. You’re just drawing a different line than others, of where you deem the use of animals to be unnecessary. It’s not necessary to farm animals for human survival. It’s a cultural tradition, like bullfighting. I don’t like bullfighting either, but I’m not prepared to attack other cultures use of animals when our culture unnecessarily uses them too.

I disagree . I think there is a huge difference between meat for food and torturing an animal to death for human entertainment

Unfortunately many countries carry out barbaric rituals on animals in the name of tradition which, btw, is always used as an excuse to treat animals appallingly. One example is dogs being boiled alive in South Korea before being eaten. My previous in-laws used to attend bullfights everytime they visited Spain, and I really disliked them because of it. Can’t see that anyone who enjoys watching it have any redeeming qualities at all and must be deeply unpleasant individuals.

According to my Catalan friends banning it was more about sticking 2 fingers up to Madrid than animal welfare. It was never as popular there anyway, it’s more in the Seville/Valencia area that it’s so entrenched.
As I’ve said, I hate it personally but unless you really look into it you won’t understand why it hasn’t been banned nationwide yet. In the Southern cities it’s a political hot potato and anytime trying to ban it will probably face issues with re- election

I’ve grown up on a farm, my fathers family are all in farming. You’d all be quite surprised at what farming really involved, from the way dogs are used to docking tails, shearing is traumatic and scary for them too. Sorry but the ‘difference’ is just about pointing fingers at other cultures and saying western cultures treat their animals better, and that’s a lie.

I disagree Jessica

Just to clarify, I mean that I disagree again regarding the farming industry being comparable to tormenting animals for entertainment

I understand that’s your opinion. I just think most people are incredibly uninformed and often find discussions like this xenophobic- not yourself but the framing generally leans that way. But I appreciate your view and concern for the bulls. They’re amazing animals, very placid most of the time. But even my Dad wouldn’t walk in the same paddock as them!

Slight derail but did anyone see in the news that a herd of those beautiful highland cattle with shaggy hair were slaughtered and sold in the Peak District because a dog walker complained? They’re beautiful and very peaceful animals, really iconic part of the moors. So sad they’re no longer there after 50 years!

It’s nothing to do with being in another country
My concern is only for the animal as I’m animal lover

If you’re an animal lover that eats animals then I’m afraid I find your position hypocritical. I do think you’re genuine and as I said above your personal comments aren’t xenophobic, I was speaking about it more generally.

I do agree they should stop, I just wouldn’t personally single this out.

I’m veggie but even if I wasn’t I could still hate bullfighting The reason for my original post was I found the picture of people laughing at a dying animal upsetting

I know. I worked with Shearer’s who laughed when they cut the sheep and the sheep panicked. It is sad when people get a kick out of hurting animals.

Dairy animals have an absolutely terrible existence FYI.

holiday I haven’t seen the photo but while they may have been laughing at the dying bull they will have also been cheering it at some point and possibly jeering the Matador or Torreador if he didn’t perform
It’s a very complex issue and not as simple as “ban it”. I wish they would but it won’t happen in my lifetime or my children’s I fear
Is all very symbolic, from where you sit to every item of clothing the matadors wear and firmly engrained in the Spanish culture (at least in some areas). Even the majority of Spaniards who don’t like it and would never go to a bullfight probably don’t want it banned

“Trail hunting happens, not fox.”

Except when hounds ‘accidentally’ pick up the scent of a fox and ‘accidentally ‘ kill it. Like ever so often....

I grew up on a farm, have seen how sheep are treated sometimes (though most of the time they’re just living a fairly natural life in a field), have been in a slaughter house etc. I’ve no problem eating meat at all, we are omnivores, we should just aim that the animals have the best life and death possible. I don’t think that’s anything like bull fighting. I, in my ignorance, went to a bull-fight in Seville, and it was one of the most shocking things I’ve seen, the gratuitous cruelty. It’s not even a fair fight, the bull is stabbed over and over before the matador even gets in the ring. Yes, we shouldn’t have gone, it was naive, but if we take the attitude that anything goes because humans are omnivores, why did we bother banning bear-baiting, dog-fighting, cock-fighting? Torturing animals for fun is wrong.