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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder which is true - school funding

157 replies

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 08/03/2019 10:39

Head teachers are warning out a school funding crisis. Stating they have having to increase class sizes and are struggling to pay for text books.

But apparently school funding has increased Hmm.

What is going on with school funding? Are schools expected to do loads more with slightly more money?

OP posts:
tam23 · 09/03/2019 17:27

The DFE are putting more money in, but a lot of this is ringfenced to set up new free schools and academies. In addition budget costs have increased by 12% due to increased employer national insurance and pension contributions. The overall effect is schools have less money per pupil.

Weetabixandshreddies · 09/03/2019 17:45

Holidayshopping

In my experience teachers on UPS are lost during staffing re structures. HoD are lost as separate departments are amalgamated thus reducing the numbers of heads of department and seconds in department, when a teacher on UPS leaves or retires the position is simply not filled reducing the potential UPS posts overall. What that means is a lack of career progression. Effectively we will end up with staff with many years experience remaining on pay points not far above NQT because senior posts won't exist. No wonder so many teachers leave after a few years.

BetsyBetsyBoop · 09/03/2019 17:46

"It doesn’t seem to be acknowledged that NQTs may be cheap but experienced teachers are needed to mentor and support them."

Ideally you would have a spread across the range, excellent experienced teachers to mentor the new teachers and those in the middle with a few years under their belt who are heading towards being the next generation of mentors. A bit of churn through the system is a good and healthy thing.

"You can almost see my HT praying for some of us experienced teachers to resign so she can employ NQTs"
My head too. Cost wise we are a bit top heavy with UPS teachers (of course from an educational perspective it's great to have so many experienced teachers!) As I said before the choice we face currently is either a cheaper way of resourcing the same curriculum or reducing the curriculum (and the corresponding staffing). Not much of a "choice" really is it....both are crap.

FlashingLights101 · 09/03/2019 17:59

Thanks Tarrarra, that makes sense.

The amount we get is decided by the number of KS1eating a meal on census day. If the number on roll goes up or we have a few children absent on census day then we are effectively underfunded for future meals. This is why lots of schools will offer a “special “ menu on census day to encourage as many children as possible to take a meal on that day.

This is interesting, as I think our school must do the same - all KS1 parents were asked to order a meal on a certain day even if their kids don't usually get school meals (mine won't eat them even though he's entitled to them) so I guess this is what they were doing. Does anyone know if that means they can use that money for other things, or is it ring-fenced for dinners?

theluckiest · 09/03/2019 18:09

It is an absolute disgrace.
Primary teacher here...there is no money. Year upon year we are being stretched with less support. Sooner or later, the system is going to snap.

Year on year we also have growing class sizes and more children in mainstream with complex needs. It is very likely that the much needed support that these children have will be the first thing to be cut. Leaving us...where? I am incredibly lucky to have a brilliant TA (mornings only) and a child with a 1-2-1. These posts will be the first to go leaving class teachers supporting 30 children , some of which who should have 1-2-1 with no support at all. In crumbling classrooms with no resources.

Which in turn will haemorrhage even more teachers as they throw in the towel.

Meanwhile, the DfE continues to spout their utter bullshit that we are getting more money than ever before and making 'helpful' suggestions to cut colour photocopying Hmm.

It needs someone like Jess Phillips MP to campaign and make a really big noise about this. Her child's school is having to cut hours by closing at lunchtime on Fri to cut costs.

She is, quite rightly, fucking furious and I have my fingers crossed that she will get the ball rolling to stop this madness. #fuckyourlittleextras

Holidayshopping · 09/03/2019 18:31

I am incredibly lucky to have a brilliant TA (mornings only) and a child with a 1-2-1. These posts will be the first to go

In my school, it’s the teachers that are going and the TAs that are staying. The TAs are being used as cheap ‘teaching’ cover with the parents not being told who is teaching their child!

theluckiest · 09/03/2019 18:45

Holidayshopping Shock That is shocking.

Many TAs I work with are absolutely brilliant but neither qualified or paid enough to cover a full teaching post. That is outrageous.

GorkyMcPorky · 09/03/2019 18:54

@mummyhaschangedhername, Wales has been dealing with this for four years already. A member of staff was lost from my DCs' school so now there are five teachers and the HT for seven classes. The regional director of education was vile when he came to 'discuss' solutions with us - you cut staff and collapse classes or I will.

Holidayshopping · 09/03/2019 19:06

so now there are five teachers and the HT for seven classes

How do they cover the classes logistically?

bananasandwicheseveryday · 09/03/2019 19:09

Someone mentioned the schools rebuilding programme. In this area, a couple of schools benefitted, but most didn't. So our pre 1900 building has some wooden walls which are totting and are easy to poke a finger through, window that can't be opened, but others that can't be fully closed because the cost of replacement, with windows that reflect the style and age of the building, is prohibitive. We have classrooms where the writing has collapsed due to rain water getting in through the leaking roof, an outdated and inefficient boiler which costs a fortune to run and keeps on end of the school at tropical temperatures whilst the other end freezes. Paint is peeling off the walls in many rooms. The cost of bringing our school buildings up to standard has been estimated at over £500k - money which is simply not available. This year, the extra costs relating to the increase in salaries, pensions etc will be in the region of £25k. Some extra funding will be coming (apparently) this year, but going forward, who knows. As a school, we have already cut staff to the bone - support staff who leave are not being replaced, some were made redundant last year, teachers are being replaced with newer, less expensive teachers. We are seriously limited costs wise on purchasing resources - once the supply of pencils, glue sticks etc has been purchased, there's not a lot left for other stuff. We have taken some rather extreme measures, which I cannot mention here as they could be outing, but we are truly cut to the bone money wise. This year, we can survive, just, but next year and the years after - I couldn't say. Yet we are still expected to provide a high quality education , stock a decent library and so on.

I have to admit to a wry smile when I heard someone trying to justify the lates MP Patrice by saying that we should accept we have to pay more to attract tge best candidates. I don't disagree, but I do wonder why that doesn't apply to teachers and schools as well as MPs.

GorkyMcPorky · 09/03/2019 19:25

Going back to the point about schools wanting to appoint cheaper teachers, it's a vicious circle. Experienced teachers can't leave schools because NQTs are invariably selected if they apply elsewhere. Huge investment is needed to address this, as well as what a PP has said about decrepit buildings. It's galling to send your child to a freezing school with a leaky roof and minimal staff when a state-of-the-art new build on the cheap, no doubt is opening up two miles down the road.

Louiselouie0890 · 09/03/2019 19:26

Sometimes I think I should get a job in there saving them money. The shit load of rubbish letters they send home would be a good one to start with. 99% of the letters are nonsense.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 09/03/2019 19:38

Our biggest issue is trying to fund the pension increase and pay rise alongside less funding per pupil. Add in a dip in students on roll and it becomes impossible. So far the impact is on class sizes and additional resources. Staff numbers shrinking as we can't replace those who leave. This year I have tried to run a curriculum area where all students have one lesson a week on a budget of zero. It doesn't work. But we can't fund it as it isn't core.

mummyhaschangedhername · 09/03/2019 20:05

@GorkyMcPorky - it's shocking isn't it? Our school is affected but we still have our heads above water ... just. A lot of staff supply equipment out of their own pockets and give up a lot of their time to the school. Monday to Thursday most staff are there until after 5, often later, and still go home to more work.

I found this group who are standing up to cuts if anyone wants to look.
schoolcuts.org.uk/take-action/

spanieleyes · 09/03/2019 20:07

Sometimes I think I should get a job in there saving them money. The shit load of rubbish letters they send home would be a good one to start with. 99% of the letters are nonsense.

oh, well. That will solve all our problems, won't it!

theluckiest · 09/03/2019 20:26

Louise Louis0809
Um, ok. Sorry, what are you on about?

GorkyMcPorky · 09/03/2019 21:03

@holidayshopping the kids are literally divided chronologically into five classes (the head covers PPA). This means that in KS2, one year there were three year groups with one teacher. It's a crazy ask of that teacher apart from anything else. Luckily for my DCs, they have no additional needs. If they did they'd be screwed.

I also strongly suspect that children entitled to specialist professional support in this area are being fobbed off with a peripatetic HLTA.

Clarabellawilliamson · 09/03/2019 21:09

Just to give some of you more experienced teachers some hope... we are relocating over the summer and found it incredibly easy to find jobs in our new city (both DH and I are UPS3 teachers in a shortage subject). In fact we both went to the same interview and they gave us both a job (different schools), so they were happy to hand out 2 UPS3 jobs in one day. Some schools and MATS still value experience and have been burned by over employing inexperienced staff. Don't let it put you off applying for things!

spanieleyes · 10/03/2019 08:26

If you're maths or science teachers, there's such a shortage schools have to pay whatever is necessary ( or employ a PE teacher and hope for the best!)

noblegiraffe · 10/03/2019 11:42

Yeah, trust me spaniel that’s not true everywhere.

FishCanFly · 10/03/2019 12:02

I wonder where they get money for the gender-neutral toilet nonsense

DaveCoachesgavemetheclap · 10/03/2019 12:03

You only have to read the TES Workplace Dilemmas forum to see how many experienced/ expensive teachers are being 'managed' out of their jobs through threats of Capability. I teach in a one form entry Primary. Of the 8 teachers there, 4 of us are UPS 2/3 and in our early 50s. At every staff meeting, the bursar keeps emphasising how the high wages bill is crippling our school and we have no money for pencil sharpeners and glue. We have been told that any TA who leaves will not be replaced. I have been teaching for 30 years and feel like I have a target on my back.

Holidayshopping · 10/03/2019 12:09

I have been teaching for 30 years and feel like I have a target on my back.

Absolutely-it’s a horrible place to be.

@noblegiraffe what’s it like for recruiting maths/science teachers where you are?

Weetabixandshreddies · 10/03/2019 12:25

Having been a school governor and been through the process of recruiting teachers - maths and science teachers were slightly more difficult to recruit but MFL teachers were far more difficult. We occasionally had to offer one extra pay point in order to recruit but not often. It definitely wasn't a case of the teacher being able to name their price. Quite frankly we couldn't have afforded it. We did need to resort to getting other teachers to teach outside of their specialism in order to cover a vacancy but more often than not we recruited from overseas.