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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be bemused at the response to events in Saltley

56 replies

Gone2far · 08/03/2019 07:39

So, you initiate a programme promoting a liberal view of LGBT issues in an area with a very large proportion of Muslims. And then your shocked when they protest. And you've probably spent years saying that multiculturalism was wonderful. The idiocy of the Liberal commentators on this is amazing.

OP posts:
Unguent · 08/03/2019 13:24

Perhaps the OP borrows his or her ideology from non-UK sources?

SteelRiver · 08/03/2019 13:30

Your post sounds like it could have been written by a Trump supporter, OP. Awful attitude.

dreichuplands · 08/03/2019 14:37

Last time I checked the polls in the UK the liberals were running at 7% I don't think you need to worry about them OP.
Other than trying to cause conflict do you have an actual point you are trying to make?

breeze44 · 08/03/2019 14:47

@wafflyversatile
I'm trying to say that people who talk about bigots in every group etc. give the false impression that the majority of Muslims share mainstream British views on homosexuality, which is problematic because it isn't true and if people think it is true they will keep implementing initiatives like this one. Muslim parents will then get upset because they feel their children are being indoctrinated with ideology that goes against their beliefs. Schools will be inflexible because they assume they are dealing with a minority which is unrepresentative of the Muslim community, and the situation then becomes heated and confrontational, media gets involved, debates start, there is more division and confrontation surrounding Muslims in Britain.
Whereas if it was acknowledged that Muslims feel differently about this and all of the options and expectations were discussed, I think it would take a lot of heat out of the situation and let people make informed decisions.
I just read a parliamentary briefing about the new legislation making sex and relationships education compulsory in schools from 2020 and it states a number of provisions for religious exemptions: parents will have the right to withdraw children from SRE with pupils over 16 having the option to opt in, teachers are allowed to state their own beliefs about marriage as long as they acknowledge the law on same-sex marriage in England, and religious schools can teach SRE in line with their own beliefs.

So if all that is true then what's the issue? Why couldn't the parents have just withdrawn their children from the classes? Why couldn't the school or Ofsted have advised the parents that they had this right? Why were the statements from the school and Ofsted so inflexible ('Protests won't change anything' etc)?

breeze44 · 08/03/2019 14:59

There are plenty of gay Muslims and gay-friendly Muslims.

There aren't. There is a tiny minority which gets a disproportionate amount of media coverage.

Of course the vast majority of Muslims in the UK could be neighbours, colleagues etc. of gay people and be perfectly polite to them without causing them any problems, being rude or anything like that but that is not the same as being 'gay-friendly' in the sense of approving of homosexuality and wanting their children to learn about it in primary school.

People who use religion as a cover for homophobia have no place here.
So according to you any Muslim who is not gay or gay-friendly is just using their religion as a cover for homophobia? Where are you going to send us all?

wafflyversatile · 08/03/2019 15:00

thanks for explaining. Finding the best way to deal with people whose views or beliefs differ significantly from the State's official line is never easy. Also I want the right to try and persuade the state to take on my views where I think the State has it wrong and I have to allow that for other people too, I suppose. I'm still not sure it matters what percentage of muslims or any other group think this way. Maybe this could have been handled differently/better. Most things could be. What works in one instance doesn't work in others.

breeze44 · 08/03/2019 15:13

I don't think that most Muslims are seeking to try and persuade the state to take on their views as such, it's more that we want to retain the rights we had when we came here or were born here with regard to our own families and practicing our own religion, rather than having the rug pulled from under us like what has happened elsewhere in Europe. We don't have any authority over non-Muslims in their own country.

Every time there is a divisive story like this and a debate around it, more and more people start calling for more scrutiny and surveillance of Muslims, more restrictions etc. and obviously it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable and insecure as we don't know if everything will suddenly change.

wafflyversatile · 08/03/2019 15:43

Well, yeah, the media and their divisive stories are a major problem and I can understand your fears.

I'm sorry for all the crap that makes you feel less welcome, even if I'm a pretty hardline atheist and homophile! Smile

breeze44 · 08/03/2019 16:54

You don’t need to be sorry for what others have done. In many ways the Uk is more welcoming than a lot of other countries

wafflyversatile · 08/03/2019 17:17

Doesn't mean it's good enough!

BokoTheChocobo · 09/03/2019 01:34

Just pwning the libs, right OP?

Yenneferofvengerberg · 23/03/2019 00:53

I don't care what religion you hide behind, homophobia has no place in the UK.

Tinkerbell456 · 23/03/2019 04:28

Waffly Versatile, Islam is a religion and a culture too.Not a race.

Jasmineallenestate · 23/03/2019 04:42

breeze44 for PM

Jasmineallenestate · 23/03/2019 04:43

Breeze, you said everything that needs to be said.

Yenneferofvengerberg · 23/03/2019 11:49

Muslims aren't statistically less likely to be gay than the rest of the population.

CostanzaG · 23/03/2019 11:55

So what do you suggest op? Should LGBTQ views not be promoted in predominantly Muslim areas of the country/world?

Multiculturalism is great. Bigotry is not.

Jasmineallenestate · 23/03/2019 14:23

Naivety is so sad. Do you REALLY believe that Orthodox Jew and Muslims, as well as Born Agains and JW embrace this?

dreichuplands · 23/03/2019 14:25

I am sure that there are a significant range of religions who are homophobic however as these people are living in country that does not accept this behavior it should not be allowed to influence state education.

Jasmineallenestate · 23/03/2019 14:44

Goodness, have you ever visited the actual world????? Apart from a surburban semi in little England? Travel a bit, learn about actual cultures rather than what the Guardian tells you. Bless Biscuit

dreichuplands · 23/03/2019 14:50

What I do think is always helpful when teaching DC any potentially divisive or controversial topic is to invite parents in before you do this, walk them through what you are going to do and why. Give them a chance to express their concerns and see what you can do to allay them. Good dialogue from the very start is productive.

Sheogorath · 23/03/2019 17:49

@Jasmineallenestate

Who is that aimed at?

missnevermind · 23/03/2019 18:15

These are my local schools and I could name quite a few of the mothers in the photos and reports.
Mostly they are complaining that the lessons delivered to the primary aged children are not age appropriate and have too much detail.
Their are 10 point of inclusiveness in the program only one of them is to to with Being Gay but this is the only one that has been delivered in this school as the teacher who built the program is gay himself and works at this school.

Yenneferofvengerberg · 24/03/2019 10:58

Not sure I'd want someone who thinks a person's sexuality can be 'overcome' to be prime minister, tbh.

Turisas · 25/03/2019 19:28

So apparently teaching children about same sex relationships is "an assault on the family" and "a war on morality". Good to know.