School tour aborted, kids now due back at 2:30am. Overreaction?

[Encolere]

My 16 year old is on a school trip. They left on Sunday and were due back tomorrow evening. They were having a great time. After dinner this evening they were told some (unnamed) kids were caught with illegal substances and they were all to pack up immediately to be shipped home. They are a 5 hour drive away and will now get in at 2:30 am. I, and most other parents, have to be up a few hours later for work.

AIBU to think this is an extreme reaction? It was a small number (I presume) of the 40 or so kids on the trip. There was no mention of any of the other students being in danger nor were the police involved as far as we know. If the schools previous MO for dealing with incidents like this are to go by, this will never be mentioned again and the kids involved will remain anonymous.

It is probably revelvant that this school group have been trouble from their first year in secondary. Despite the majority of the group being well behaved they are always (all) in trouble because of the actions of those few who are lacking in the cop on department.

compensation from where?! The school?!

Rainbow,

If the trip was due back on Wednesday evening - probably at the latest around 7 pm or so? - then they have missed precisely 1 morning of the trip (and 1 night, when they would have been asleep), as they would have left around lunchtime at the latest.

Given breakfast, lunch, packing time etc, they probably missed a 2 hour activity at most.

What compensation would be reasonable for a missed 2 hour activity? And who should pay it? Not the venue, because it is likely that the party violated their rules and so they were within their rights to expel the group from the premises.

SmileEachDay

I feel your pain. I’ve had to drive (with a colleague) 79 miles to drop a DofE kid back who decided they didn’t fancy it, because the mother couldn’t get there. When I dropped her off, mother was having her hair done in her living room by a mobile hair dresser and couldn’t even be bothered to wave a thank you. Then had to drive the 79 miles back for the others on the trip. Beggars belief we still bother!!

I would think the accommodation has asked them to leave earlier too. However, peer pressure on the guilty is a strong force to be reckoned with. Chances are more might be involved and the Teacher/carers are hoping someone might speak up.

i hope they are going to offer some sort of compensation for the ruined trip.
Fuck right off with that one!!!

A school in our local authority told a pupil’s parents they did not want to take their child on a residential trip due to consistent bad behaviour. Parents complained. It ended up at a tribunal. School was told that as the trip was in school time they could not refuse to take the child. Head then cancelled the trip totally explaining that he and the staff weren’t prepared to take that child. . I don’t blame him or the staff. Apparently local authorities all over were watching the outcome as obviously it had consequences for their schools. The school in question did not do another residential until that child had left to move to secondary school. There are no consequences for children these days and that state of affairs seems to extend beyond school. I feel sorry for the well behaved children but as a teacher I wouldn’t have been prepared to go on the trip.

These days, elf and safety being what it is I don’t imagine the teachers had much choice about their reaction to the substances. I don’t suppose they are enjoying coming back early in the middle of the night. No doubt they will be expected to be in school tomorrow.

It was better in the olden times when I was teaching. Once, on a Lake District trip, a kid was discovered to have drugs on him and one teacher drove him home in his own car and the little git was expelled.

This happened to a group of students from my college when I was a student there and although all of them were over 16, it was a few rogue elements ruining it for the rest of the students and they had no choice as the whole party was thrown out of the hotel as it was more due to bad behaviour so the trip returned early.
Was it just the drugs or is there more to it like the group being told they had to leave the hotel or something as it seems extreme to me and the school aren't saying all of what happened?
I can understand the school making parents inconvenienced by coming back at that time to make the point of how big an issue it is but just leaving it to be dealt with by the parents rather than expulsion or exclusion of the guilty ones seems a bit light and especially as you say it never being mentioned again and the kids being kept anonymous.
I know if that had happened at my school it would have meant expulsion or exclusion for a while at least.
Guessing from what happened on my college trip, am I right in thinking this trip was possibly to The Netherlands or Amsterdam?
I can see it from the school's point if view but I think there's more to this as it seems extreme.

I wonder what would happen if a parent refused or was genuinely unable to collect though?

I know some people on MN find it shocking, but there isn't always money for a taxi and you might not have someone else to ask for help.

They did the right thing. It would be completely unfair to expect teachers to deal with teens under the influence of drugs or coming down, plus if the venue is one that caters for lots of school parties they probably have policies where anybody found with drugs needs to leave immediately.

There is a teacher:pupil ratio to 1:20 at that age, so if there were 40 kids and 2 adults, and 5 took drugs, it would be illegal for one teacher to take 5 back and leave the other 35 with just one teacher. Plus one teacher would never agree to travel alone with children under the influence alone, so three teachers wouldn’t be enough because they’d need two to go, and usually teachers expect there to be another teacher present while they supervise in this sort of situation in case they need a witness if they search children and their belongings. Plus it’s not likely the coach would agree to extra trip or two, or maybe at a large expense.

The school is in the wrong with this one. I'm a secondary headteacher. This is how they should have proceeded.
Isolate and have a teacher sit with the offenders and therefore able to leave at normal time and not affecting the behaved pupils.
A school should NOT be punishing those not involved as I'm assuming parents have paid for this trip.
If the accommodation has asked the whole school to leave then of course they have to leave, but the school are then responsible for any extra costs (they should have a risk assessment in place!)
If they arrive back at 2.30am then the teachers do have to sit on the bus with the children until the agreed pick up time. It should never be expected that you collect earlier from a trip and at 2.30am is ridiculous.
Offending pupils would be expelled period. Some small form of compensation should be offered to all pupils not involved. We would offer a book voucher or similar.
This is the minimum good practice in my opinion and I would think about looking to another school if the SLT treat families like this.

onegiftedgal And where would your school find the money for these book vouchers?

And I am puzzled at those talking about punishment. It is not a punishment.
If I go into a nightclub, pay entrance fee, and then the police raid the premises and order it closed, I am not being punished by the police. I am being affected by others behaviour.

But you are speculating. The OP said it was drink not drugs, but we have no idea exactly what happened and whether the venue even knew. Maybe some pupils were drunk, maybe all the pupils were drunk, maybe they found bottles of something unopened.

The OP did say that there has been on ongoing problem with all the pupils being punished for the bad behavior of a few kids, so she was concerned that that was what happened here.

There's really not enough information about what happened to say for sure if the school acted appropriately or not, I think.

Sorry, the Op said there was an ongoing problem with the quiet kids being overlooked and the troublemakers not being punished.

But, I think too many people are filling in the gaps with this thread and it's not really productive.

onegiftedgal

I'm a secondary headteacher.

hahahahaha. Its good to laugh after a week of work.

If you are a head (and a doubt it) you should be backing your teachers and coming down hard on those pupils that misbehave otherwise you are part of the problem.

So apparently (and I say apparently because we have had no formal information from the school) today was the first day the trip teachers were in. The whole year were brought into an assembly with the teaching staff. They were told they were all to blame. If one report is correct, even the kids who didn't go were to blame and those who didn't misbehave well, that doesn't matter because they would misbehave next time.....This is from the headmistress. She also said that the year would "never flourish" after this event.

I'm gobsmacked. This sort of unfair "you're all bad and will always be that way" attitude should have been left behind inthe last century. Even the rebels aren't beyond redemption but seemingly they're all, to a child, going to hell in a handcart.

It reminds me of my own school days where we were beaten with a stick for the likes of giggling in mass at the age of 7, and then when we didn't cry enough we were beaten some more until we obliged. Thankfully that behaviour has mostly disappeared but I think this heads attitude seems to come from that same ancient handbook. I don't think this headmistress is even 50 years of age.

Offending pupils would be expelled period

That’s illegal. There is a long and torturous legal process to be followed before a school can PEX.

I hope you’re not a head.

What a horrible message to give a whole year group :-(

You need to have that meeting with the head to find out exactly what she did say and what is going on, ideally involving also other parents of children in the year group. If she really did say that, it needs to be made clear that it is not acceptable that the innocent should be tarred with the same brush as the guilty just because they seem to be unable to get a handle on a serious problem with some pupils.

It's possible the accommodation asked them to leave. I used to teach and we used to run school trips to France. One of the students set off the fire alarms twice in one morning once, and the hotel manager said that if they found out our students had been smoking, then we'd all have to leave immediately. In the end, it was because the students had been having very hot showers with the bathroom doors open, and the steam had set off the alarms, and we were fine, but if the hotel had kicked us out, we'd have had to come home.

I think if we'd found illegal drugs we would either have packed up and gone home, or insisted the parents came out to collect the offenders.

If you are a head (and a doubt it) you should be backing your teachers and coming down hard on those pupils that misbehave otherwise you are part of the problem.

But she's said that she would impose permanent exclusions. Surely that is coming down hard?

That’s illegal. There is a long and torturous legal process to be followed before a school can PEX.

Not true in relation to one-off serious offences. Supplying drugs - which it looks as if at least some of the pupils were guilty of - definitely comes within that category. The headteacher has the right to impose a permanent exclusion immediately. There is a right for the parents to ask for a review, but that doesn't stop the decision taken effect.

Sounds like a form teacher who used to say all kids are delinquents to be.

I hated her guts!

Not true in relation to one-off serious offences. Supplying drugs - which it looks as if at least some of the pupils were guilty of - definitely comes within that category. The headteacher has the right to impose a permanent exclusion immediately

No they don’t. They can exclude for 5 days initially. Then a thorough and detailed investigation has to take place, during which time the child must be supervised at home, doing work supplied by school.
This then is extended in 5 day blocks until the investigation is concluded. It’s then presented to a panel who may or may not agree the PEX.
Then the parent can appeal.

If (for example) statements haven’t been taken, kids have had a chance to collude etc it can (and often is) thrown out and the PEX is not upheld.

The OP talks about a group of students. Trying to PEX in that situation is very, very difficult.

UnspiritualHome

But she's said that she would impose permanent exclusions. Surely that is coming down hard?

Lets start with
Isolate and have a teacher sit with the offenders and therefore able to leave at normal time and not affecting the behaved pupils.

This is not supporting your staff and should not be decided from 5 hrs away.

As for expulsion, do you know how hard it is to make these stick?
Even on the school grounds, with a full investigation and evidence it is very hard to do.

On a school trip it would be damn near impossible as there are too many plausible scenarios that the offending pupils could make up, and far too many pupils that they could lay blame too.