AIBU to ask if bicycle towing a child carrier looks unbelievably unsafe?

[longwayoff]

I don't spend much time in traffic but noticed one of these the other day which made me feel a bit concerned. Today, the Mail has video of someone crossing 3 lanes of traffic with one attached. They look dangerous on so many levels. How can they be legal?

Clare that’s an opinion, you disagree with the fact that car drivers can’t hear as much as cyclists wearing earphones - but have no evidence to back up your opinion

No I do not disagree about what cyclists can and cant hear when compared to car drivers. I am saying as vulnerable road users you need to be as alert as possible, just as I do as a pedestrian crossing a road. It may not be fair, but ignoring as a cyclist that you are a more vulnerable road user, is a sure way to get yourself killed.

Clare that’s victim blaming attitude

And doesn’t do anything to protect vulnerable road users it just shifts blame for crashes to the victim and not the person responsible for the crash

You would prevent deaf people from cycling or walking

to me it shows that HGVs shouldn't be on these roads, or that they should be subject to a timed ban (ie they can only enter towns and cities between 12 and 5am)

How would that work? Would town dwellers all have to have furniture delivered and the bins emptied in the night? And what about builders' lorries? Planning regs often impose a ban on builders working after 6pm and before 8am, because of noise. It would be a bit pointless to then allow skips to be removed and tonnes of bricks be delivered by a HIAB lorry outside those hours.

No it is not victim blaming. It is recognising the reality as a vulnerable road user. You could as easily say that telling a cyclist they should wear a helmet is victim blaming.
And my friend who is totally deaf is extra careful crossing roads, because listening does make a difference to judging our surroundings.

I do think that there should be short courses, perhaps free online ones, showing cyclists, drivers, lorry drivers, what the road is like from other road users perspective and giving safe driving advice.

There is it is called the highway code

Rule 219

Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or traffic officer and incident support vehicles using flashing amber lights.

How many people are towing/ carrying kids on a bike with headphones in anyway?

Does no-one else have to cycle listening to a running commentary on the vagaries of the teen titans and other IMPORTANT THINGS?

I have one of these contraptions.

In itself, it feels very safe - extremely solid ‘roll cage’ construction, DC are strapped in with a 5 point harness, very stable and secured to the bike with two separate mechanisms to provide a fail-safe.

I use it mainly off-road but do use it on roads too. Does it feel safe? Yes and no. I feel the main risk is of the trailer not being seen by vehicles. I have a high flag on it and also attach flashing bike lights both day and night, I wear hi vis which I wouldn’t normally. I ride very cautiously and defensively when I have the trailer on. I always felt the main risk was a vehicle on a side road waiting to pull out and not expecting an extra 6ft of trailer after the bike has gone past - I always try to make eye contact with the drivers in that situation, make sure they’re paying attention.

Once you get used to it feels no more risky than letting DC ride scooters on the pavement.

Threads like this make me really sad that I don't live in the Netherlands. Wanting to cycle with children shouldn't be cause for people to accuse you of putting their lives at risk.

Once you get used to it feels no more risky than letting DC ride scooters on the pavement.

Isn't this the worry though? I have been in 3 minor car prangs in 20 years, all accidental, none my fault, I have been lucky. All protected and at low speed, lots of car damage, no human damage. Not a single event was predictable or expected. I don't know a cyclist who has not had an incident. Shit happens, I am risk averse as a result and wouldn't.

www.gov.uk/browse/driving/highway-code-road-safety

I haven't read it for a while and will do so again now. I would advise any road user to do so regularly especially if you haven't ever had to learn it for a test.

You cannot pass safely without going into the opposite lane, so what you mean is he was preventing you passing unsafely.

One-way street, so no opposite lane. Most of the town centre is one-way where I live, it's a historic town and most of the roads are too narrow for 2-way traffic.

The bin men have to use Transit-sized vans in the centre, bin lorries are too big.

Car drivers have far more protection in a car, and therefore a greater margin for errors that will not harm them. So it is not uncommon for drivers to have small bumps with other cars in which no one gets hurt. With a cyclist there is no such thing as a small bump

This is a shocking attitude and you shouldn't be allowed to drive. What you're saying is, why bother being alert if it's just someone else you could kill, rather than yourself? The fact that car drivers have the potential to hurt themselves and others and cyclists and pedestrians almost invariably only harm themselves with their mistakes is a reason why car drivers should be more mindful of their responsibilities and surroundings, not less!

I know the Highway Code. But I meant videos actually showing what other road users can see. I know lorry drivers have poor visibility and a long stopping distance, but many people seem to be shocked at the video link I posted showing what lorry drivers can and can not see. And most car drivers do not understand why some cyclists road position in the way they do. So no I don't think the Highway Code is enough.

One-way street, so no opposite lane. Most of the town centre is one-way where I live, it's a historic town and most of the roads are too narrow for 2-way traffic.

In that case there is no way that anyone could have passed him safely if he'd gone over to the edge of the road - they'd have had to pass him too closely - so he was right to cycle in the centre so no one attempted it. This is a classic example of defensive cycling looking like 'bad' cycling to car drivers.

NewAccount No I am not saying that at all. I always try to drive very defensively. But if I was cycling, I would simply be aware of the realities that I am far more vulnerable as a road user. You are free as a cyclist if you want to ignore your vulnerability and just insist all car drivers should drive well. But they won't all drive well.

How would that work? Would town dwellers all have to have furniture delivered and the bins emptied in the night? And what about builders' lorries? Planning regs often impose a ban on builders working after 6pm and before 8am, because of noise. It would be a bit pointless to then allow skips to be removed and tonnes of bricks be delivered by a HIAB lorry outside those hours.

They'd do it with smaller vehicles, or - where that was absolutely impossible - in the middle of the night. It would be pretty inconvenient but then people die because of these vehicles being on residential narrow roads, so...

If the HGV didn't exist and was invented today no one would think it was reasonable to let them drive down the high street in rush hour

You say you have been driving for twenty years with three accidents, as if accidents are the totality of the damage. But that's twenty years of inhaling elevated levels of in-car pollutants, twenty years sat in a car sedentary, twenty years polluting the atmosphere, twenty years with elevated stress levels caused by driving unlike cycling which boosts happiness and reduces stress.

I'm not an angel - I have a bike but often use the car, but I think it's worth unravelling risk to see long term risks from the seemingly safe options.

Sorry, I type sooo slow, that above post was in response to wiggle.

In that case there is no way that anyone could have passed him safely if he'd gone over to the edge of the road - they'd have had to pass him too closely - so he was right to cycle in the centre so no one attempted it. This is a classic example of defensive cycling looking like 'bad' cycling to car drivers.

No, if he'd been a metre or so from the l/h kerb, I could have easily given him another 2m of room without being too close to the opposite kerb. I drive up this hill around 10 times most weeks, and have safely overtaken many a cyclist while doing so.

Please don't make assumptions when you have no idea what hill, or town, I'm talking about!

But that's twenty years of inhaling elevated levels of in-car pollutants, twenty years sat in a car sedentary, twenty years polluting the atmosphere, twenty years with elevated stress levels caused by driving unlike cycling which boosts happiness and reduces stress.

The thing about cycling is where to put the wheelchair! There are other kinds of lives being lived out thee you know!

I'm rahter shocked by the level of pollution when you're in a car. Would using the air con filter out some of it, or are the particles too tiny for it to make a difference?

Sorry Wiggle. My point was just about car-risk vs bike-risk but I framed my point thoughtlessly.

There's an article here on in-car pollution.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns

There's nothing there about air-conditioning or what-not. I'm sure air pollution would be halved in cars if people would ban those magic fucking trees which is cryptonite for asthmatics.

Apology accepted! This snotty look down your nose at anyone not cycling that exact second is not helpful teyem. It is narrow minded and alienates instead of furthering discussion.

As I said in my other posts I am also a cyclist but get very frustrated by the attitude that all drivers are fat lazy bastards. I hear it a lot because there is a lot of discussion in our city right now and some cyclists want all vehicles banned immediately.

The reality is that vehicles are a useful part of modern life for disabled, infirm, long distance, bad weather, big stuff, rescuing, needing to get places. We need to protect our environment so let's think of a way to do it realistically. Let's protect cyclists and pedestrians realistically. Stop demonising anyone outside of the very specific "able to cycle" box.

If you have any infirmity to deal with in your family it makes things very personal and quite frightening hearing over and over again how anyone who won't cycle must be bad, it's simply not the case. The elderly and disabled population is growing and they need safe transport to live their lives not staying trapped at home.