To spend hundreds on a 'gentle' sleep trainer?

[babyworry2018]

Our baby is four months old and for the past seven weeks she will not sleep.

It's not the usual 'wakes every hour,' it's literally not sleeping in the first place. We have tried almost everything, we're now sleeping in shifts at the weekend with my husband doing 8-12 and 6-8 in the week so I get a few hours to enable me to function.

We've tried all the advise, bought all the sleep books, she has a bedtime routine, I kill myself to get her to nap three times a day which also doesn't really help, she's too young to do controlled crying .... I've been reading sarah ockwell smiths gentle sleep book and see she also does personal advise.

We don't really have the money but if it worked it would be worth it.

Has anyone used a 'gentle' sleep trainer? Would it help? I feel at this point just having someone tell us what to do would help, the baby is barely getting 6 hours of sleep over 24 hours and almost all of that is under an hour. It's not working for any of us.

Yes actually sling does work. Sorry lots more responses. We can sort of afford it- like, it's not nothing, but it won't mean going without any basics. And yes, entirely agree that it is almost certainly about paying someone to tell us what we already know so we feel guilted into strictly following a routine that will only work as she grows out of it. I guess partly it's paying for hope, but that's a bit silly!

I actually have been meaning to go back to GP re: reflux, I do think it's a factor but I've been told because she is putting on weight well they won't want to give her any treatment.

We worked with a trainer who was coaching over phone/email, as I couldn't spend loads on home visits (and she was super busy and didn't have time to see us in person for 2-3 months!)

It worked quite well for us. Perhaps you are going through 4 month regression? I think it's worth a try, the email consultation is a sort of middle way if you cannot afford the full thing (I didn't!)

I used Sarah for sleep training via email, my baby was much older than yours though. She is lovely. Her approach is quite different to other sleep trainers and is a longer term approach. It doesn’t involve leaving the baby . We didn’t get overnight success but that child is now the best sleeper of all of my children.

If anything, it gives you a structure to follow, with support, so encourages you keep at it rather than trying loads of different things and not knowing what is best to do. Just knowing I was taking action helped me feel better about myself!

We're intending to use a gentle sleep trainer for our (older - 8 month) DS in a couple of weeks. We fully understand that they're not going to tell us anything we don't know - I already know it's going to be a form of gradual retreat - but we need the support and someone to give us confidence - we've tried on our own before and failed. We feel very sure that it'll be worth the money if it helps, but we can afford it quite easily, it would be different if it would leave us struggling.

I think it's easy to mock people paying for old rope - and they probably are, to an extent - but when you're exhausted and everyone in real life gives you totally contradictory advice some calm reassurance and direction is worth a lot.

Although I kind of said it's paying someone to tell you what you know, if the support helps you to get through it and you can afford it then it is probably still worth it. And sometimes paying for hope in the middle of the night seems more than worth it!

I just wanted to give you an idea of what would probably happen. Sleep training wasn't for us with this one and I'd prefer to avoid it as much as possible if we have another as I do think it's mostly developmental but I am open minded to it. Ideally with a slightly older baby if possible

@user1471481356 thank you, it's great to hear it's working

@NewAccount270219 it varies but is between six hours and nine hours across 24, I have been using an app and recording literally everything, every time she nods off at the boob etc. The last time she got eight hours it was three hours. in the daytime - two forty minute walking naps, one hour in sling and some time asleep after feeding, then five hours at night: one two hour chunk and lots of ten minutes, twenty minutes, thirty minutes. She'll fall asleep feeding and then once I transfer her to side sleeper either wake immediately or usually within half an hour, then around 5am she has been doing anywhere from an hour to two but it's just been degenerating.

The last nurse I spoke to believed me about how little sleep and essentially said as she was thriving even though it was outside 'typical' there was nothing to suggest it was abnormal.

But I do think reflux is an issue and will look into that more.

I drink three much needed cups of tea a day, none later than 5. I can cut the afternoon one out but it's fairly essential in morning and the same I was drinking through pregnancy so I hope a fairly low level.

I dont see the problem w trying a sleep consultant if the bills will still be paid and there's still food on the table. Your mental health is worth quite a lot.

Both my kids were/are hard to get to sleep and wake frequently in the night. I just couldn't do the gradual retreat thing, I just couldn't have done it.

Decide if you can actually do it before you pay someone to tell you to do it. Because I suspect you can't do it.

This was my child. Although she was much younger than yours when we sorted it. I knew it wasn’t normal as she was my second. She literally had enough to power nap and then carry on again for another few hours. Long story short it was reflux caused by a milk allergy. Once we sorted the milk allergy she was a different child and started to sleep four to six hours at night and eventually by 18 months 12 hours until we introduce milk then she regresses a little with one or two night wakings.
Oh and she was putting on weight too, how with the amount she projectile vomited I will never know!

Have you tried giving a formula feed at night with my DD we had to cut down to 2 naps and give formula feed before bed... she only really started sleeping well when she was 2 x

Also, you really are doing a great job OP, this sounds so hard and whatever you decide it you've been nothing short of amazing!

@Anoisagusaris thanks so much for replying, it's useful to hear someone who's been to her specifically.

I know I couldn't do gradual withdrawal, she's far far too little. It's not about us getting lots of sleep, or easier sleep- I would kill for a three hour and a two hour a night and I don't mind what I have to do to get it. I don't mind going to bed at 8pm if she's only sleep 8-1, or co-sleeping, or anything that's kind of a pain but works but at the moment the only thing that works is holding her in our arms and it's just too unsafe if we fall asleep and too impossible if we can't.

I don't want to use formula: she was a bit unwell when she was a newborn and had many strong doses of antibiotics- mostly precautionary- but I was told the best way to ensure it didn't have an ongoing effect on her tummy was to breast feed to a year if possible and EBF to six months.

I know whatever we do it will be long term but I was riding it out thinking it was the sleep regression and we're at nine weeks now so I just don't think it can be.

@Rooberoobe what were the signs of dairy allergy you had? DH had a dairy allergy as an infant, funnily enough he also put on lots of weight - and was also EBF- but he screamed constantly and was clearly in pain and because she isn't I've discounted that. She's a happy little soul. But maybe I shouldn't rule it out, though not sure how I'd get GP to take me seriously.

Mostly I just feel like we're failing her a bit, I don't believe this little sleep can be normal and I'm sure there's some combination of things we can try that can get her more rest but I've read almost every book and so far nothing has taken.

Would it be crazy if I just started to cut out dairy entirely myself? How long would it take, or should I try the GP first?

The main ones were constantly feeing as in 45 mins to an hour feeding pulling on and off then projectile vomiting. Then starting again 15 to 30 mins later all day. She was also never settled in her sleep as in constantly squirming (is best was I can describe it.) Unlike you I couldn’t continue feeding an needed a break so gave her one bottle of formula as she drank it she started with a rash all over her face. Think it’s cow and gate website that has a good list of symptoms. She had almost all of them when I looked.

Apparently milk allergies can run in families as we think her dad May have had an undiagnosed one.

I would speak to gp first as you may need a calcium supplement and some, like mine, have multiple allergies like soya too.

If you would like to go down the food route, make sure you use a dietitian who follows the RPAH Allergy Centre advice. it's the only one that does proper elimination diets and controlled trials about to really find your problem.

I am told many will skype your appointment, if necessary. www.facebook.com/groups/380347182034474/

You've mentioned reflux a couple of times but still putting on weight. Is she staying within the same centile in the red book? My DC was putting on weight but dropping down the charts. I went to get DC weighed every 2 weeks to track it.

DC was diagnosed with reflux and CMPI but would have a very distressed in pain cry everyday and what felt like all day. DC was FF.

Could your DC be reacting and be uncomfortable from the dairy in your diet passing through to your BM. Especially with your DH having it when he was a baby. My DC also gets it from my DH.

Sorry just read the last part of your last post properly. I'm sure dairy takes a couple of weeks to leave the system. And a few weeks more to totally settle your DCs tummy without it.
It took 4 weeks of being on the correct milk for my DC to totally improve but saw small improvements within 24hrs of being on a new milk.
Apart from lack of sleep and the awful crying and dropping down the weight charts, other signs were issues going to the toilet. Being constipated and then having mucus in their stools. A red spotty rash on their cheeks which was passed off as baby acne at first but disappeared when on new milk. Feeding very very little and often. Not being settled during feeding.

None of mine have been able to tolerate me having more than 1 cup of tea in the morning, and my middle was so sensitive to caffeine through my milk I couldn't even drink one cup or eat dark chocolate without it affecting her sleep, she wouldn't nap in the day or sleep at night for months. All 3 of mine have dairy allergies too and taking the allergens out definitely helped all of their sleep.