To wonder why the Corbynite left is so obsessed with Palestine?

[Antigony]

To be clear - I don't agree with everything the Israeli government is doing.

But there are vast numbers of governments around the world who are doing terrible things. There's the Chinese government's treatment of the Uighur Muslims, the Australian government's offshore internment of asylum seekers for years driving some to suicide, the Saudi Arabian government's warmongering and bombing in Yemen, Maduro in Venezuela stopping food aid from reaching his starving people, the Iranian government hanging gay people etc.

Why have so many people on the British left seized on and fetishised this one injustice? Why do they all put Palestinian flags in their twitter bios and jump on every opportunity to criticise Israel, but don't do the same for these other countries?

What country was founded after a genocide?
Certainly not Israel. There was mass (but not universal - a substantial minority remained) displacement during a bitter ethnically based civil war. It was far less deadly than, say, the founding of Pakistan and then Bamgladesh in the 70s. In fact, it was even less deadly than the Balkans war in the 90s. That's not to say it wasn't nasty and a tragedy for the Palestinians. It was. But it absolutely was not a genocide and calling it such just exemplifies the problem and is based in anti semitism.

Ah, sorry. I misread the previous post. Point about constant reference to genocide remains but not in relation to pp. Apologies!

There was one rally i remember where all these idiot hard left had signs saying 'we are all hezbollah'. The israel hatred was so intense they were prepared to identify with a homophobe misogynistic terrorist organisation

Simpler explanation is that there is support for the Palestinian people because they have so few friends internationally and that the ill judged posters you refer to are showing some understanding as to why some people turn to terrorism when their pleas for support are not heard by the international community. That is not a defence, it's an explanation.

As for identifying with 'a homophobic misogynistic terrorist supporting organisation* - think that is what the British Tory Government has done when allying itself with the DUP - actually allowing a vile sectarian party right into the heart of our government (a party that cannot even govern the small province of NI).

Nobody can win this debate. Palestine is justifiably irked for historical and ongoing reasons. Israel HAS to exist, no question, for historical and ongoing reasons. There doesn't appear to be a solution.

Well, hezbollah isnt even a Palestinian organization and has killed many Palestinians over the years.

I can't quite believe you would compare the DUP to Hezbollah - a terrorist organisation which has no compunction to kill civilians. FFS - this is the problem!

StoneofDestiny you equate a confidence and supply agreement between two legally elected representatives from political parties with the support of the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah?

FFS, these people have turned into a parody of themselves.

@Longwayoff

It's not a question of winning a debate. I sympathise with Palestinians and I'm disgusted by the current israeli government and its move towards nationalism. That's not the question of the op. The question is why the obession of corbyn and his friends with Israel which seems to dominate to the exclusion of many other, far worse, situations. Both humanitarian and human rights

The DUP are against gay marriage, and are very allied to Britain rather than Ireland. I don't like them, but its hardly the same as collapsing walls on homosexuals and seeking the destruction of an entire state and its peoples.

Gushpanka, thank you for your helpful explanation.

If Israel’s enemies put down there guns there would be no war. If Israel put down her guns there would be no Israel.

Every Israeli bullet that kills a Palestinian civilian has missed its target. Every Hamas / Hezbollah bullet that kills an Israeli civilian has hit its target.

but its hardly the same as collapsing walls on homosexuals and seeking the destruction of an entire state and its peoples.

Yet, Israel continues to demolish Palestinian homes and seeks destruction of an entire Palestinian people.

can't quite believe you would compare the DUP to Hezbollah - a terrorist organisation which has no compunction to kill civilians. FFS - this is the problem!

The DUP are supported by armed terrorists who kill civilians FFS. The previous leader called for 'a people's militia' - what do you think that is! Or is it just a question of scale?

Terrorism is wrong - even more wrong when elected governments are supported by terrorists.

So everyone who criticises Israel stays quiet about all the other atrocities in the world?!

Whataboutism is the scurge of modern day debating.

Yanbvu as people are dying and are being labelled racists for standing up for these people. It’s insanity. The Israel government are very open with how they use the term anti semitism to shut down any arguments against them.

It’s the same as the US where Trump uses the term fake news to shut down any arguments against him. Even when the evidence is on video tape he did or said something.

but its hardly the same as collapsing walls on homosexuals and seeking the destruction of an entire state and its peoples

Get reading some history in Ireland - see how Ireland was settled and how Northern Ireland came to be was formed.

If Israel’s enemies put down there guns there would be no war. If Israel put down her guns there would be no Israel

Well put

Whataboutism is the scurge of modern day debating.

That may well be true, but not of the OP’s question. She wants to know why Israel/Palestine is a cause for the far left above and beyond any other comparable cause. That’s not whataboutery. It’s a straight question.

The answer is long-standing support for former Soviet causes + (linked to the old Soviet position and the modern Russian one) it opposes an American interest + many on the far left being rancid racists.

Kissing the rain

op is stating that this cause is above all for the far left which is not true. It’s the most prominent one in the news at the moment but it is not the left that are doing that.

It is classic whataboutism!

It’s not whataboutism to ask why this has been an utter obsession of the left for decades. The answer is that Israel is seen as a Western country whereas all the disastrous regimes across Asia, Africa and the Middle East get free passes. That is known as the racism of low expectations, something the left also commits in this country from time to time.

Thatssome

You overlooked the word ‘comparable’ in my post. What the OP asked was Why do they all put Palestinian flags in their twitter bios and jump on every opportunity to criticise Israel, but don't do the same for these other countries?

Her question is about the focus on Israel/Palestine to the exclusion of other issues of nation state injustice and conflict.

We’d all agree that the British far left has other causes and hobby horses in other areas of policy - Trident, nationalisation, tax policy etc. But when it comes to (as they’d see it) injustice over land and recognition, for the far left it’s Israel all the way.

I gave my reasons for that above.

And the most obvious answer to why people may be more vocal about Palestine than atrocities in Yemen/China/Africa/etc is actually the opposite of anti-Jewish sentiment in my experience. The majority of the Israeli population are of European/North American background. Their society is a western society. Their societal values are relatively in line with ours. Their culture is similar. Israel is our society committing a modern day imperialist occupation under which the people who had lived and still live in the regions had their homes stolen from them and are treated appallingly. "We" are responsible for this.

Europe and the US created the conditions which led to Nazism. They turned blind eyes to what Hitler was doing. Many supported it. Anti-semitism across Europe meant that the Nazis had an easy time when they rounded up millions of Jewish people. In most Axis occupied countries even citizens who hated the occupation were happy, by and large, to ignore their Jewish populations being removed. (The exceptions being Denmark and to a lesser extent Bulgaria. Denmark in particular was amazing as nearly the entire population conspired to save the vast majority of their Jewish citizenry, then maintained their homes and businesses to return them after the war.) British and American leaders, even when having learned about the concentration camps chose to refute their existence so they wouldn't have to destroy the rail lines being used for the forced transport of prisoners. Then after the war, Britain dealt with the region terribly, allowing a massacre to occur. (Having learned fuck all from the way they withdrew from India months before.)

Europeans and Americans created Israel and all they did was pass on the suffering they had stoked and allowed, to another people in another place. Israel should never have been created as it was. The Arab governments are generally content to use it's existence and the Palestinian people as a political stick to beat the west with when it suits them. But they won't help the actual people in real ways, preferring to continually stoke discontent in the region. There will need to be massive regime changes in the middle east for that policy to change and moves to be made to genuinely help the Palestinian people. (And they will be a long time coming.) Some of the wealth in the west and the middle east should have been and should be being channeled into Palestine. Creating a viable neighbouring state to Israel. They should be two neighbouring countries with roughly equally matched economies and comfortable populations. Possibly with UN peace-keeping missions overseeing their evolution as nations for several decades. And who would be aided in developing decent neighbourly relationships and share aspects of their equally rich cultural heritages. But ultimately the Arab leaders would never allow it and it's not in the short-term interests of the West to push the issue.

Instead Israel, largely populated by a people who faced one of the worst genocide attempts in living memory, is left to feel continually under threat in the centre of hostile territory, while the Palestinian people are left to bear the brunt of those tensions. The Israel supporting western groups don't really give a shit about the Israelis, outside of the American political need to placate the fairly powerful Jewish lobby. (A lobby which is growing increasingly uncomfortable with Israeli actions.) The Palestine supporting Arab groups don't give a shit about the Palestinians. During the cold war the Soviets didn't give a shit about the Palestinians either. It's just another form of proxy war for those groups. It's a way of creating instability that small powerful groups of people profit from. While the Israeli people to some extent and the Palestinian people, especially those in the Gaza strip, suffer. I absolutely understand why Israel was founded. Why it was an absolute necessity to people. But how it was founded fucked the region up and has had global consequences for nearly 75 years, with absolutely no end in sight. And I'm not ok with it. I'm angry about it. I feel guilt about it. As someone who grew up in the living memory of our own occupation by imperialists, I empathise hugely with occupied people.

All the morons calling people who are concerned about Israeli war crimes in Palestine know that Palestinians are Semites right? Maybe get the literal most basic fact about the region and it's peoples before mouthing off.

I assume this was meant to say “calling people who are concerned about Israeli war crimes in Palestine anti-Semitic...”

If so, that is probably the stupidest argument that’s put about in defence of the far left’s obsession. ‘Anti-Semitic’ means anti-Jewish. Look it up.

I know exactly what it means. Yes, anti-Semetic has been used in the west as a short hand for prejudicial feelings and actions against Jewish people. But the in the context of the middle east it's entirely incorrect as the Palestinians are a Semetic people. You literally can not be anti-Semetic and pro-Palestinan. It's an absolute oxymoron.

"Europeans and Americans created Israel and all they did was pass on the suffering they had stoked and allowed, to another people in another place. Israel should never have been created as it was."

Ummm, neither Europe nor America "created" Israel. The UN voted for a partition plan which the Jewish community accepted and the Arabs rejected. The British didn't want to be there anymore in the middle of what was already a civil war and left. The State of Israel was declared and, in addition to the civil war, five Arab countries invaded israel/Palestine. it was in the midst of this civil war that the Palestinian displacement/nakba mostly happened. Everyone was sure that Israel would not survive but it did. It wasn't given to anyone, it wasn't created by anyone other than the people directly involved.

And this thread is not whatabouttery.

If the OP had asked something about Israel and something that had happened and people answered 'yes, but what about...' as some kind of defence, that's whatabouttery.

However, the OP has asked why Israel above everything else? Why do we see on twitter a handle #JC4PM almost inevitably acompanied by a Palestinian flag?

To a certain extent, I accept the argument some have made that Israel is a developed country with a Western liberal democracy and should be held to the standards of other members of this club. However, I remember once saying this to a Israel hater and they exploded with hatred (and misinformation) about why Israel isn't a democracy and that it's because Israel is so awful. So not convinced this argument flies wiht most corbynites.