To feel let down and cast adrift.

[blinkywinky]

(Sorry for dramatic title) so as not to drip feed. I divorced exh 10 yrs ago. We shared custody but over GCSE and A Levels son (now 19) stayed full time with me so I could help him study and keep him focused. I paid for all his ex curricular activities and he always had latest kit as I was a higher wage earner and his dad couldn't afford it. His father has mental health issues and is very emotionally manipulative. Makes kids feel guilty if they choose to have night out with their friends on a night they are staying at his. Anyway. Now ds is 19 he is doing really well at a Uni course he loves and has a part time job and lovely girlfriend. I'm so very proud of him. But he is spending 6 out of 7 nights at his dad's. Because there he gets to drink openly (I can't have that here as I have 3 other children ages 6 - 11) he gets to be a lad over there having his girl friend stay. I don't allow that here. (My own choice again considering small bros and sisters.) When he does come to stay he eats with family and spends rest of the time in his room. He fills up on home cooked food and clears off again. I don't know when he's staying and when he's not. He works nearer me than his dad and so sometimes will only stay here for convenience. I feel a bit like he's taking us for granted. I'm marrying my new.partner soon and DS wants nothing to do with wedding . I feel so let down. I know all I have done for him is just my motherly job but AIBU to feel let down by his recent behaviour?

Does your partner stay over at yours and do you and or your partner drink alcohol while there? I’m just wondering if your son feels he isn’t being viewed as an adult if you and or your partner are allowed to do these things. I can understand that younger DC’s view is important but the things you mention are part of growing up and when the younger ones are adults what will the rules be then? Surely the young ones understand that some things apply to children and some to adults

Partner and I live together and he has always been great with my two from previous marriage. We don't really drink at home maybe a glass of wine on a Saturday night. And I have no issue with DS doing that. What I object to is week day night sitting with a bottle of Gin on the coffee table eating Chinese at 9 at night. He can do that all week at his dad's and that is what he's choosing at moment. The bad language is terrible too. This RAF image isn't one I'd hoped for him so maybe I'm just being a snobby cow.

I think it’s tricky. By not allowing DS to live life as he chooses - and there’s nothing inherently wrong about drinking gin in the evening or eating Chinese takeaway, it’s just different habits to your own - you are essentially saying he’s welcome to find somewhere else to do so. And he has. Plus, 19-year-olds are not known for their selflessness and sensitivity towards others.

That said, I do think 19 is old enough to be taught that parents have feelings too and for you to sit him down for a conversation about how his taking you for granted makes you feel - and also to acknowledge that you recognise that his relationship with your partner isn’t good, that your partner might not always have treated him well (because to want nothing at all to do with the wedding, is more than just teenage indifference) and if there’s anything you can do to improve the situation.

He probably does feel that you judge him negatively. If you felt a friend or relative disapproved of your behaviour and lifestyle, and you had alternate places to spend your time, how much time beyond the obligatory would you choose to spend with them?

Well why would an adult man want to live somewhere that he has to follow the same rules as a 6 year old?

I agree with you op. When my adult ds was at home he was having a rough time and drinking every day. I told him he could wait til siblings were in bed as I didn't want them only associating him with the smell of alcohol. He agreed tbh. Your house, your rules. But your ds should also respect you as a dm not just a free feed. Speak to him. He is old enough to grasp different rules don't make you wrong here.

He is just exhibiting normal 19 year old behaviour when many of his cohort would be at uni or college and so enjoying his freedom.

Congratulations for producing such a lovely young man.

As long as he is kind and thoughtful, helps out occasionally when he comes over, knows how to cook, clean, do the laundry and all the life skills he'll need when he has an independent life of his own both at his dad's house and yours then can't see the problem really.

His issue with the weddingbis that he feels disloyal to his father by taking part. He said he will go as a guest if he has too but that's it. The only rules I have which are non negotiable is that I don't want him to swear in front of the little ones and as a PP said I don't want the little ones to associate him with booze all the time. I just want him to be setting the same example to the little ones as I did for him. It's not about rules it's about being an adult and a good role model. In fairness they go to bed at 8 so he can do what he wants after. If he wants to drink gin on a Wednesday night then go ahead but pour it in the kitchen and then tidy after u. Don't be leaving it at your bum and clearing off to bed!

It's so annoying we set a.good example all those years. Tried to bring him up to be courteous etc. Now he's turning into a selfish slob. Exactly like his father. It's heart breaking. Oh and btw.i have never said that to him. Neither have I ever Said a bad word to either of the kids about their dad.

Maybe it's time he had a room in student accommodation or a shared house with his girlfriend? What is the situation with bedrooms at your place? You could suggest to him that you want to redecorate his room and use it for your 11 year old who will be going to secondary school and will need a study space.

So he's gone from "Now ds is 19 he is doing really well at a Uni course he loves and has a part time job and lovely girlfriend. I'm so very proud of him" to being a soon just like his dad?

Slob*

I get you OP. He is allowed to live like a student at his father's but you and your younger children still live in a family home, and want to maintain that family atmosphere.
I think you need to move your relationship onto an adult footing though. If you feel he is using your home as a convenience... can you maybe have dinner with him somewhere out of the house and try and build an adult relationship with him, rather than him just seeing you as provider of his domestic comforts when he feels like it.
I understand him not being too interested in your forthcoming wedding/marriage. That relationship is your choice. Not his. He already has a father. Step relationships are awfully difficult and a reminder that his parents are not together. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean all these emotions are easy.

I'm sorry but I'm not surprised he doesn't want to stay with you under those conditions. I don't see anything wrong with eating a Chinese mid week! Or having a drink! He's an adult but you're treating him like a child.

I think you're making issues where there aren't any. My son's girlfriend regularly stays over and they can eat and drink what they like (he's 18). It's had absolutely no adverse effect on his younger brother!

I would say I'm quite an over protective mother generally but I recognise that he's an adult and needs to learn how to live like one whilst he's still at home. He's learning to regulate himself whilst he's in a safe environment so that he doesn't go on a bender the minute he leaves home. He's tasted wine, beer, gin etc here because we've not made it a 'bad' thing and he's decided he hates wine, can only manage half a shandy, but is quite partial to a gin and orange, but that's about it! He enjoys cooking good food and looks after his girlfriend. I'm very proud of him and couldn't imagine putting the restrictions that you have on him as I think it would hinder him from becoming a well rounded adult.

DS is now 23 with a much younger brother and sister. I always allowed him to drink alcohol in the house if he wanted to and allowed his girlfriend to stay from being aged 17 when they'd been together for a few months. He never drinks at home now and rarely drinks at all. DS and GF have been together six years now and still spend regular nights here and at her parent's home. They're about to buy a home.
I think it's a bit hypocritical that you're treating him that way but your partner stays and you drink at home. DH and I have been married twenty four years and I'm teetotal. You're pushing him away by treating him as a child.

I personally don’t see a problem with having a drink and eating Chinese at 9pm. Surely the younger children will be in bed or heading there at that time - it isn’t like it is 4pm. I also would have no problem with him having a girlfriend over, but I appreciate other people feel differently on that.

I think children should be taught that older people, especially adults, have different rules to them. I can understand why he is going to his dads if he feels he is treated more like an adult there.

I would sit down and discuss some boundaries with him and also listen to his opinions. There could be some compromise there. You say you are proud of him, you also acknowledge that your ex is emotionally manipulative. Eating Chinese and having a drink aren’t slobby really. He sounds like a typical 19 year old to me.

Has your son given any reason why he doesn’t want to be involved in your wedding? Influence from his dad, or does he not get on with your partner?

Selfish slob ? No wonder he doesn't want to spend time with you.

Ok I'm willing to accept the drinking thing and Chinese thing is too strict. I wouldn't say don't have a Chinese just ask that it's eaten off a plate and he cleans up after. I hate coming down to concealed Chinese lying on the coffee table in the family room where he has left it.
I'm also willing to admit that on writing this I'm starting to see that any likeness he has to his father is really irritating me. I need to work on that myself not him.

As for the wedding. He's getting lots of passive aggressive comments from his father like "oh she's doing it right this time..." when d's told him where the wedding was and his father regularly implies we are up.our arses with our family lifestyle. I'm willing to admit I should never have married his father and we were a really bad match. (Again would never ever say this to my kids)

I probably am bu feeling how I do. It makes me feel sad.

Apart from the swearing, I wouldn't have any problems with the way he behaves. He's a grown up now.

Thanks everyone. This has actually really helped. I'm very very concerned that he will turn out like his dad. He is a very lonely person with no friends and his family have nothing to do with him because he is so selfish and treats people so badly. People think he's really funny and charming until they get to know him and they always leave him then. I have seen it countless times and he will never admit it's his fault. He just bad mouths the other person.

I don't want ds to turn out like that. His dad has a low paid job and lives in a rented house and he continually tells kids that's my fault because I divorced him. He calls our son Mucker because he said his name was one of my snobby picks.

I'm terrified d's will think this is acceptable. He is doing brilliantly at Uni and could potentially be very successful in this chosen career.

I fully believe he has the potential to do brilliantly and I font want his father to somehow demean that idea by trying to make him feel guilty for wanting more for himself. Believe me he has already started saying things like don't be thinking your better than.your dad just cos your at Uni. When DS turned 18 hi father wanted to take him out for a pint on the night his mates wanted to go out with him, when son said he would meet father 1st then go to mates his dad said oh your too good to drink with me are you? So son cancelled night out and sat in pub with father. It's pure shite and worries me a lot.

All of that has zero to do with the fact you are treating your adult son as a 6 year old in whom you have no trust.

Until you understand that he is 19 and not his farther your relationship will continue to decline

Hopefully your son will realise that his dad is insecure AF op. My DM started with the 'You think you're SO clever, doing sciences' shit when I began my A levels. If never said anything of the sort quickly worked out it was her, not me. It's good that he's already at uni; he'll be surrounded by people who want to succeed there and it's hard not to want to follow suit! His father will become more bitter over time and more negative as his son overtakes him (as he'll see it), and your DS will, eventually, work it out. He has to do it for himself though.

Im also unsure what's wrong with having a Chinese takeaway midweek? Ive been known to do that on many occasions....

You are treating him like a child. He's a 19 year old man. With respect, you don't seem to be making him feel very welcome either.

He’s experimenting with adulthood and on many levels he’s doing it really well: uni, job, nice girlfriend. On other levels he’s conflicted. At home he feels he’s treated like a child and with a big age gap he won’t have much in common with his siblings right now.

His father is pulling his strings but it won’t take too long for the cracks to show there.

Hold on tight. It’s a stupendously selfish age for many young adults. One of mine was absolutely dreadful. A few years on he’s a gem. Keep connected. Tell him that just coming to your wedding is fine. If he chooses to have more involvement ( what were you hoping for?) he can still opt in.

Keep a few ground rules but look for areas you have in common and keep your connection going. Of course it’s a bit sad but in no way is he his dad. He’s just spreading his wings.