Any advice on how to cut down formula top ups?

[Gahrattwice]

Strap in for a massive essay:

I have a six week old baby. She lost a lot of weight on day nine and we got sent to a&e and put on bottle top ups of 60ml after every breastfeed, so eight per day usually. Which I now realise was a full feed.

Weight gain now good and I have been trying to reduce the formula and get back to EBF. I have sought help and advice from various sources (been to all the groups, called all the helplines) on how best to do this, how much to reduce by, but have been given conflicting info. I have very slowly reduced to around 350ml of formula per day over four approx 90ml feeds, plus anything I have managed to express. But baby is constantly hungry, never seems satisfied. Even when I have broken and given 125 ml in desperation she roots around for more. I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing in trying to get back to EBF when she is so unsatisfied all the time. Last few days since TT snip have been the worst, constantly rooting and crying if not attached to my boob for hours on end, but is angry and frustrated when on the boob too, I'm guessing because she prefers the bottle now.

She is still putting on weight of around 25g per day on average, and has plenty of wet nappies. Only poos every couple of days but they are massive! Tongue tie was cut couple of days ago. I am trying to express as often as I can, but she won't be put down so is hard, and I am really struggling to cope. She hardly sleeps so neither am I!

Has anyone else had success with going back to EBF from formula? I have been trying so so hard with it but am on the verge of giving up, which is making me feel like shit. I don't even know why, there's nothing wrong with formula, and I wasn't that bothered about breastfeeding when I was pregnant!

Also, look at the charts for breastfed baby weights. It's totally normal that they lose weight in the initial weeks and then gain more than their peers later. Mine definitely followed that pattern. It was reassuring to see, sadly my HV knew about the growth patterns varying but the midwives didn't seem to, I think some are just used to formula. Keep focused on increasing your supply and good luck!

Echoing previous posters - is she “hungry” or is she “putting her order in”? The latter is what happens with cluster feeding and in the early days it can be normal to be on the boob all the time. The baby is driven to suck because the sucking will stimulate your supply. Plus the need or urge to BF isn’t just about food and I do think that people who haven’t BF don’t get that. Eg when I was in hosp post childbirth I got the impression that the feeding specialist hadn’t BFd-it was all science and no art with her. And BF is 90% art.
You definitely need to camp out with a load of decent food and box sets like others have said. Good luck

It sounds like your doing a great job, have you been prescribed domperudone? It can also help with supply.

How are her nappies - they are also a good indicator of how much they’re getting.

Nope I haven't asked for it, maybe I'll ring GP tomorrow...

Lots of wet nappies, but only poos once every two days approx. But an awful lot of poo when she does go. Have mentioned this to everyone I have spoken too and no one seemed concerned about the poo frequency though it worries me.

Our DS moved to one daily poo on average at some point. Sometimes more and sometimes skipping a day, but usually once a day. It might just be her pattern. Eat some prunes if you want more poo.

Poo frequency totally fine - my two used to go 3-4 days, sometimes nearly a week!

Keep going - and I think it's probably more realistic to cut the volume of each top up rather than dropping whole big ones in one go :)

Sorry if my message last night was a bit short - I read it back this morning and cringed - I was doing too many things at once and in the efficiency think I posted a message that sounded impatient!

It didn't at all mrscog, I appreciate the advice!

Phew. How's it going - how did yesterday go in the end?

Ok thanks. She's still attached to my boob an awful lot, though perhaps its calming down slightly (famous last words...) Has been five days now I think, so hoping it has been a growth spurt and is coming to an end. We are both currently naked in bed doing skin to skin which is very cosy. My only problem with this is I'm so very tired it's very hard to stay awake but I know I shouldn't fall asleep with her on my chest!

Get settled on your side curled around her on the boob (lie her parallel facing you), then if you fall asleep she's still safe. I cosleep and it's like he never came out when he snuggles right in.

Urrrrrrgh. She's still attached to me. I tried the side lying position last night but she fussed on and off for ages so I couldn't sleep, I tried another position and she still fussed. Gave her 90ml of bottle and she still wouldn't settle. She won't be put down anywhere even for the brief periods she's not feeding (she's always been like this) so I have no break from holding her

Has been nearly a week of this now, can this still be a growth spurt? I don't think I can keep going much longer on no sleep.

I wonder if she has silent reflux and that's why she's finding it hard to settle without being held, have you checked the symptoms of that?

The fact you gave a 90ml bottle and it made no difference to her fussing would make me think it’s not really a supply issue.

Have you thought about a dummy? I think it was about 6 weeks i got fed up of the constand feeding so tried a very loose routine...

feed until she fell asleep. When she came of naturally I’d substitute the dummy- everytime she stirred she’s start the sucking reflex and wake up if nothing in her mouth. The dummy meant she slept longer.

I’d feed again when she woke up.

Then activity- age appropriate, so at 6 weeks it would be nappy change, encouraging smiles, walk out in the pram or sling. Fresh air preferably. I’d often walk to a cafe so someone else would make me coffe and a sandwich while I fed!

Then feed again until she fell asleep.

This meant distracting from feeding meant she took bigger feeds and started to go a little longer.

Some babies just like the closeness of being held. The only time i could put mine down was when we walked in the pram- i bought a carry cot so i could leave her to sleep in there.

She was prescribed gaviscon a couple of weeks back but it gave her bad constipation and didn't make any difference. I dont think she has reflux, only symptom she has is being sick (often quite a lot) after feeds but she doesn't seem to be in any discomfort from it.

Have tried her with the dummy, sometimes she'll take it for a few minutes bit more often will refuse it.

A think a walk out in the sunshine is a good plan for today. If I can drag my tired bones out the door.

Gaviscon doesn't always work, I'm trying to remember what others in my mum's group had, ranitidine and omeprazole maybe. Might be worth looking into a little more.

Mine didn't have it. But he was windy and would spit up a little from overeating when he had wind, he needed gripe water and very firm back rubs.

I did ask the GP about ranitidine but she was reluctant to prescribe.

She's still attached to me despite another 90 ml bottle. I just want to give up, I really don't want to go on like this. Urgh, so crap after all the effort I've put in with the breastfeeding but I can't take any more! There's no way I can reduce the bottles when she's permanently hungry and I feel like it's the worse of all worlds breastfeeding and FF.

Bleeeeeeeeeergh.

See a new GP?

@Gahrattwice - hi op - im in a very similar situation to you now only with a 4 week old. Would love to hear how yours ended up? Struggling with keeping up supply. Have s 2 year old so sitting feeding all day just isn’t feasible. Would be great to hear if your week of baby constantly on the boob did the job. Thanks in advance!