To think db has been scammed by his ex

[lurchersrool]

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

[frazzledasarock]

Your brother doesn’t have a job, so CMS will make him pay the bare minimum, I think it’s about £5 (if he’s claiming benefits). The bitch how very dare she expect the father of her children to make a financial contribution for them.

The house has no equity so he has no money, she’s not taken anything from him, if she sells the house will be take a share of the debt that will land them with and no house?
Currently he has no realisable assets however his children have a roof over their heads (which he’s not paying for), surely he’s happy that his ex is stepping up and feeding, clothing and putting a roof over his children’s head?

Your brother is living with the consequences of his life choices.

[Walnutwhipster]

I can't get my head round your thinking OP. They must have spent the equity together remortgaging.

[Bowsbows]

But it can't be simplified to "he had 80K and now he has nothing". He has made decisions and choices along the way, (as we all do) starting with investing his 80K in a house jointly with a woman he'd just met. Remortgaging along the way. Having DCs (a lifelong commitment). Cheating. The only person who has spent his 80K is him. She hasn't stolen it from him or scammed him, as in taken it without his knowledge or consent. His decisions and choices have led him to his present situation, excepting his health issues which aren't his fault, (which also aren't her fault).

[SaturdayNext]

It sounds as if the loss of the money is to do with decisions made around buying property, nothing to do with the divorce.

Is the house in joint names?

[Yabbers]

MN are incredible... if it was the other way round and the wife had stayed at home and looked after the kids it'd be all "she gave up her career , she has reduced pension now , she's the primary career she should stay in the house with the kids"

If you’d actually spent any time here you’d know that if a woman came in here, claimed she had barely had a job, looked after her kids FT for one year and cheated on her husband the bleated about how unfair her divorce was she wouldn’t get any more sympathy than your DB.

[AornisHades]

If he struggled to hold down a job and had been the primary carer, surely with legal advice, he'd have had a case to stay in the house with the dc.

[DoJo]

Sil got all three valuations - could db contest those?

Why? Presumably, he could have got valuations himself if he wanted to be sure of the figures? It sounds like he has relied on his wife to do all the mental work of keeping a household afloat if he is this helpless when it comes to managing his divorce, so it's no wonder their marriage was in trouble. I imagine that it was exhausting living with someone who will not even lift a finger to find out how best to represent his own interests in this situation, so I'd be surprised if he was particularly involved in the workings of family life.

I'm sorry for you and your family - it sounds like your father is going to have to accept that his son has made bad decisions with money that was supposed to set him up for the future, and you must be worried about your brother, but I can't believe that he has been a completely competent person until now and has only just slumped into a passive person who is letting themselves drift into destitution.

Perhaps you would all feel better if you accepted the current situation as is and worked on how to help him to make the best of a bad situation rather than fuelling a sense of injustice that will ultimately be unproductive. Get him to research cheap/free places to take the kids, encourage him to find a job that would give him some income and support him to be the best dad he can be despite this difficult situation.

[Somethingsmellsnice]

As with any marriage it was no longer his £80k but theirs. As with any divorce it is all in the pot. SIL is housing and looking after children as well as supporting herself. The court will not certify consent orders if they believe them to be unfair.

Whose fault the marriage break up is has no effect on divorce/financial matters in England and Wales.

[WH1SPERS]

So she has the children 100% of the time. She pays for 100% of everything for them.

He never cares for his children and he doesn’t pay a penny towards them, yet he’s hard done to.

Okayyyyy

[DishingOutDone]

If your brother ends up with nothing it will be because he can't be arsed to consult a solicitor. There should be an arrangement made for the mother to raise the children in the house and then its sold when they are 18, but if she has to pay the mortgage for the next 10+ years with nothing paid in by him then the court would award her a higher proportion of the equity. He can't have it both ways. Even the CAB can give him basic advice to just roll over and then blame everyone else and the cruel fates is ridiculous.

[MiniMum97]

There are lots of options. He isn't being "scammed", he is refusing to go to see a solicitor so it's his own stupid fault if he ends up with very little because he didn't understand his options. It's not up to his ex to fight his corner. She will fight hers and he needs to fight his.

One option is that he could look into having a charge put in the property for his "share" which he would get when the house is sold, or other milestones like when the children are 18.

Of course he has to pay maintenance for his children. How much his ex earns is irrelevant, he should still contribute as they are half his children.

[expat101]

Unfortunately they/he have made life choices (re-mortgaging and renovating) and they both are now living with the consequences. Ultimately they could agree not to sell the property, either one lives in it and pays the other half market share rent value or come to an agreement with the custodial parent remaining in the house with the children with a reduced CS liability. This however needs to be officially signed off on as these things can turn ugly when left as a private agreement.

Re-visit the situation when the youngest turns 18 or is out of the education system. Hopefully the house would have increased in value and set them both up better for the future.

Remember its not a lose until they sell.

[birdsandroses]

When people on here say he may be entitled to half the pension, am I right that will only be the pension that she has accrued during their 12 years of being together? Any future pension payments from the divorce onwards will all be hers, yes?

[LilQueenie]

he paid 80K basically for sex on the side. his loss. pratt.

[Lalliella]

Yes birdsandroses that is correct.

[steff13]

He can't afford to support his kids, and he wants $80K from the person who is supporting them? So he's see his kids worse off? Delightful.

[donquixotedelamancha]

she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

Yes YABU. Obviously. It would be terrible of her to rob her children of money to which they are entitled because she feels sorry for their deadbeat dad.

If he's got the lower earning potential, why is he not the main carer, or at least 50/50?

He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work

Wow. No woman would ever do that. Presumably pixies looked after the other one?

He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing

It is impressively crap of them to manage to put down 80k and pay a mortgage for 12 years, then end up with no equity. House prices have gone up (on average) by a third in that time. www.nationwide.co.uk/about/house-price-index/house-price-calculator

They have both, presumably, spent that 80k and the rest. It was never just his money. He needs to start making sound financial decisions and being a dad to his kids- that means as close to 50% of the care and expenses as possible.

What is wrong with you OP? Concentrate on your nieces/nephews needs. Offer their mum as much help as you can and encourage your brother to grow the fuck up.

[Teaandtoastie]

This happened to a friend of mine- basically they were told they could either wait until the children were 18 and sell the house, each getting an equal share (called a Mescher order) or she could buy him out now, but he would get a lesser amount because that was all she could afford (she had to remortgage to do that).

It is perfectly legal and normal. It sounds like he has taken the second option in order to get some money straight away.

As others have said, the £80k is gone, even if they sold up now he wouldn’t get it.

[shpoot]

Expensive shag. And f all to do with you

[Fishwifecalling]

If were him I'd be asking to keep 50% of the house with the intent to sell it when the kids are 18. He might end up with something then.

Can she actually afford to keep the house on if there is no equity in it. Are you sure the house hasn't increased in value over the last few years? There must have been a deposit at some point.

[birdsandroses]

@Lalliella, thank you!

[HennyPennyHorror]

Fish Do you think children magically don't need a home when they hit 18?

[PickAChew]

So he should have kept his dick in his pants, then.

[birdsandroses]

There must have been a deposit at some point

I was thinking there must have been a deposit for the bigger house they bought only a couple of years ago. For the deposit to go they either have remortgaged only recently or unlucky for the house price to have dropped a fair bit in the last two years. Admittiedly, I don’t know the market well but I thought many areas haven’t had a big drop in house prices this last couple of years.

I am sorry OP but it sounds due to house cost decisions taken as a couple during their marriage the £80k has been swallowed up. I don’t see any scam. I would look into whether she can buy him out when the youngest child is 18 bearing in mind she will be payIng all the mortgage payments between now and then.

[Shinesweetfreedom]

Have not read rest of thread but
House prices from first buying 12 years ago plus remortgaging for improvements to first house then moving to a bigger house means no equity now so he don’t get to see any of the money he first put in.That is gone,but he has a roof over his head.Oh wait he doesn’t cos of where he put his cock.
She has always worked and got a good job.Good for her.
He has been in and out of work and low paid.So she has more then paid in her share to the pot.
He is lucky he is getting any of her pension.
Fuck me and you think it’s spiteful asking for child maintenance.
Tough shit.