To think db has been scammed by his ex

[lurchersrool]

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

[birdsandroses]

Do you think children magically don't need a home when they hit 18?. Good point.

[nocoolnamesleft]

There's one thing he needs more than a solicitor: a job. Many of us with chronic painful conditions have no choice but to hold down jobs.

[HennyPennyHorror]

Birds I watched my friend go through hell when her husband of 20 years suddenly left her for another woman.

His youngest had just turned 18 and his oldest was 20. It was as though he waited till' he felt he'd "done his job" and then buggered off.

Not before he'd ruined my friend's credit by persuading her to get a loan to save HIS business. They'd already remortgaged to save his business. She thought she could trust him...they'd been married for so long.

She wasn't earning enough to pay the mortgage alone so they had to sell it.

Meanwhile, he bought another house with his new woman...she had the deposit ready and waiting.

My friend had to move into a rental house with the kids...one's in full time education and the other's doing an apprenticeship.

She really struggles...the kids can't really contribute and she's got no security at all.

[Monty27]

You said exsil can only raise £20k.
If your db does this to her he's doing it to his DC's too. Putting them in hardship possibly.
Has he not got responsibility to keep a roof over their heads and why the hell should they be penalised because their df couldn't keep it in his trousers?
I hope she gets really good legal advice and gets the house in lieu of maintenance which he probably couldn't honestly commit to anyway.

[0rangeB0ttle]

No scam. They own half the house each if they are married. So either one person buys the other out or they sell up and buy somewhere cheaper each. If there are other assets I believe the starting point is 50/50 at point of divorce. Both patents need somewhere to live & so do the children.

[mummmy2017]

So if they got a mortgage with a £80k deposit 12 years ago, they must have had a cheap mortgage...
Then you say they bought a better house, so unless they used the money released or did loads of work on the house that didn't up it's value, their house must have gone down in price. Check. Zoopla. You can see how much it cost them.
How did they live? Holidays nice cars?
Did they spend a lot?
As I wonder if after all the bills have been paid that is why the marriage has nothing to share ..
Also if the wife wants a financial split now,. And keeps paying the mortgage, unless your DB intends paying half the mortgage there is no reason for him to stay named on it...

[0rangeB0ttle]

I'm going to add that buying property is usually the biggest purchase that most people make. Therefore people generally do not buy property without putting lots of thought into it. Some mortgages last 20 + or 30+ years unless, over payment, inheritance or other money is made available, so it's a long term commitment. Therefore your DB surely was not scammed into buying or to having a family. He however seems not to have a job

[Italiangreyhound]

"He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future."

I am sure you love your brother but it does seem he has made some very unwise decisions. Not getting a solicitor being one of them. He needs to see a solicitor.

Having a affair is not nice but I totally agree with 0rangeB0ttle

"They own half the house each if they are married. So either one person buys the other out or they sell up and buy somewhere cheaper each. If there are other assets I believe the starting point is 50/50 at point of divorce. Both patents need somewhere to live & so do the children."

[3luckystars]

I feel really sorry for your poor dad.

Is there any chance of your brother and his wife getting back together or are things unforgivable? It is very hard on everyone.

[Santaclarita]

Haha good one.

Really though, how is it impossible for him to get the 80k back when they bought a bigger house? Although I'm guessing he was a complete moron and never had it written down somewhere that in the event of a split, he gets his 80k back plus half of what the house is worth after that.

If he didn't have anything to signify he wanted that back, oh well. They should still be able to sell up and buy somewhere cheaper each. But I lack sympathy for him, he cheated. It's not a scam either, he should pay for his kids. Being out of work isn't an excuse that's his problem not hers.

[Graphista]

Are you for real?

He cheated - legally irrelevant but certainly morally relevant and actually is why he's IN this mess

It sounds like she has residency of the kids which means that likely she was actually the primary carer

They bought the property together and you say you don't know the "ins and outs" so you've no idea what she invested

he doesn't hold down a job you mention a condition but not elaborated on the severity and if this is really why he can't hold down a job

REGARDLESS of her finances they're his kids too for which he is half responsible INCLUDING financially so the VERY LEAST he should do is pay csa min

"but I'd say he did more childcare than her" how on earth would you know? You don't!

Fullofcold - 1 year as a child carer doesn't make him the primary carer now and doesn't mean he wasn't supported by his ex which it sounds like he was

"but db is pretty vague about how it all works." In other words he's spinning you a line to make himself out the victim - be prepared to quite possibly find out he's lied to you about all sorts, been an utterly useless husband and father possibly apart from that 1 year out of max 7 that he was sahp, pissed his money up the wall on booze, gambling, drugs or even just thrown it away on crap and she has been bailing him out for years.

"I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them" no you're missing the point her income is IRRELEVANT he's still HALF responsible for HIS kids

"tbh db has caused him a fair bit of worry over the years" doesn't surprise me at all but then he (and your mum where's she?) have raised him to be an entitled selfish twat so...

And you're just further enabling him to continue to be an immature irresponsible twat!

[swingofthings]

He is not getting a bad deal. If they bought a house many years ago and there is now no equity in their current house, they either failed to pay anything towards the capital or they made very wrong decisions about the price of their homes.

As it is, he has half of a property, so it is up to him to still pay half of the mortgage so still be part of this investment if he thinks equity will pick up and therexis money to be made from it. That I à choice he has.

As for the attitude that he shouldn't have to pay maitemamce because she has a good job, what a pathetic attitude to have. The maintenance will be worked out as a proportion of his income. This means that it will likely not cover half of the costs of the children meaning that she'll have to pay much more than him towards their children and so be left with less disposable income for herself, maybe no more than him despite working hard to keep her well paid job, the job that means he can get some of her pension.

From what you've written, it sounds like she is well rid of your brother. Time to get his back sorted and his career going, rather than focusing on his physical needs.

[Lellikelly26]

He needs to get legal advice. An affair is not behaviour that is taken into account for division of the finances. He should defer his interest in the house and take it out in the future

[Lellikelly26]

And maybe MN not the best place to post! Too much black and white thinking, he cheated so should be treated like the anti christ etc

[LivingDeadGirlUK]

There is something very off about this. Your brother didn't work much and your ex SIL is a career woman yet you dont describe him as a stay at home dad, just praise him for being primary carer for a year?

So he didn't work much, and didn't look after the kids enough to be fighting to stay in the house as the primary carer? Maybe if he had pulled his weight a bit more he wouldn't have had time to cheat!

Who has been paying the mortgage?

[Onceuponacheesecake]

No sympathy here either op.

Your brother made these decisions with his partner, he spent the money, he has to live with that now. Your SIL, despite you claiming their relationship was never perfect, is now having to deal with a break up with a cheating nob, is also stuck with a house mortgaged to the hilt, knowing fine well your "DB" can't be relied upon to help out, with children to prioritise. Doesn't sound like she's having a great time of it either.

[TheSerenDipitY]

so 12 years together, he hasnt worked much, shes been working her ass off to support him and the children, and pay the mortgage and bills while hes off screwing Mavis from the baby group at the church hall and now hes upset that hes kicked out with pennies?
is that the gist of it?
if she even though he put in 80k for the house she has been paying most of the 12 years of mortgage alone? in that case she has most likely almost equaled his input there
she has also been supporting the household bills for 12 years mostly alone?
she has supported him and his needs mostly alone for 12 years? and hes done some low paid short term jobs and some child care for a year?
and then started screwing Mavis and her mates while the wife is off working her ass off to pay the bills?
did the wife get to take her full Maternity leave? or did she have to go back early to pay the bills?
if all that gets a yes or mostly yes's then he deserves all hes getting!!!
and also as he seems so vague on details are you sure hes telling you the full facts? i think hes leaving out details that make him look like the villain in this

[Belenus]

Just doesn't seem right that he gets given 80k then ends up with nothing.

One way to look at it is that he was extremely lucky to be given 80k in the first place. Presumably there was some happiness in the marriage at some point? And he's been a good dad.

I would try to persuade him to get more, and better, legal advice. You need to take the emotion out of this as far as you can. It's a shitty situation for him but I'd look at ways of helping him with the reality of it, rather than bemoaning his luck.

[FilthyforFirth]

Your bro sounds like a real catch. A workshy cheat who doesnt want to provide for his kids. You sound equally awful for saying his wife is 'spiteful' for asking for maintenance. Can't believe what I have just read to be honest. Thought it would be a reverse.

[fiorentina]

It sounds to me like she’s got the bad deal. She’s been working all this time, financed a series of poor decisions and now your DB isn’t stepping up to provide for his children still. I know he’s your brother but he needs to focus on providing for himself and his dependents.

[slipperywhensparticus]

I would back off he clearly wont tell you the full story just enough to make him sympathetic

If she can get 20k off the bank and most of it go on the solicitor bill someone has been running it up a divorce shouldn't cost that much

[Marnie76]

So just to clarify. Your brother brought £80k into the relationship at the beginning and hasn’t earnt a lot since. Your sil brought nothing but has contributed £20k (at very least) per year for 12 years so roughly £240k. They’ve all benefited from both sets of money but she’s brought more in to the relationship. They’ve both looked after the children.
I’d say he’s done pretty well actually!

[flumpybear]

So
Your DB has no career and crappy paid jobs
He invested £80k into their family home from his dad's money many years ago
He's worked in and off and spent a relatively short amount of time looking after his own child/ren over the seven years since they've been on the planet .... so what the rest of the time she's been paying for childcare?

Your SIL has a good job and is earning and currently paying all the mortgage

Your SIL pays for their kids in entirety

Your DB doesn't contribute money or childcare (?)

What's his contribution to all this? £80k? If so then what about all the investment your SIL has made over the years by paying her salary into this shit situation? Why should he get out with his £80k ... his does that trump your SIL and their kids?

He sounds like a poor catch and person of poor judgment - she's well shot of him

IF he pays intonthe house and family then yes perhaps the house should be sold and split equally in the future but they invested in a poor area

[finn1020]

He’s a natural dad, but he doesn’t think he should contribute anything financially to his own children? What a loser.