To think db has been scammed by his ex

[lurchersrool]

Db is going through a divorce. There are two children involved who he sees regularly and the divorce was triggered by his infidelity - though he's single now and insists the marriage was in trouble for years before he cheated which was certainly how it looked from the outside tbf.

Anyway, the point is there was fault on both sides but I feel he has been royally shafted by the way the finances have been dealt with. He and I were both given £80k by df in order to buy property. That was about 12 years ago, just before the crash. Db and exsil had just got together but they bought the property together, despite df raising some concerns about it. I don't know all the ins and outs but they had a fair bit of work done on the property which involved re-mortgaging and a couple of years ago moved to a bigger house.

Apparently the situation now is that the amount of equity is so little that there is no point in selling and they have no other assets so db can't get his £80k, or even half of it back. Ex sil has said the most the bank can lend her is £20k, and even that she's saying will partly need to cover her legal costs, so he's going to end up with a pittance. I think it's a joke. She has a well-paid job while db has no real career as such. He has back problems from an injury he got years ago and has always struggled to hold down permanent jobs. He looked after one of the dc for a year as a baby so ex sil could go back to work, but now he's being left with nothing, well nothing aside from a share of her pension but he obviously won't get that for years so nothing really tangible.

It just seems so wrong. He refused to get a solicitor although I had offered to help pay, and I know df is beside himself worrying about db's future. He thought the £80k would at least see him in secure housing but now it seems to have gone and db is back to shitty bedsits. To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing. AIBU to think she shouldn't be putting in this claim and db has been treated really badly here?

[DorothyZbornak]

Are you serious? He cheated on his wife and broke up their marriage. By the sound of things the poor woman has been working her backside off for years trying to support him and now you think he's being 'scammed' because he might have to pay maintenance towards his own kids?

You sound exactly like my MIL when her son and his wife split up. They too split up because he was shagging someone else. He left his wife and 7 year old child and fucked off to another country with his bit on the side. His wife had a breakdown a couple of years later and yet as far as MIL was concerned it was all her fault because "Well, she obviously wasn't making him happy so he had to look elsewhere"

[CanILeavenowplease]

To make it worse she is now asking for maintenance which I think is just spiteful. Normally I always think men should pay for their kids but this woman has a well-paid job and db literally has nothing

You, OP, are the reason so many men get away with not supporting their children. He has no current childcare responsibilities. The children have two parents. It is far from spiteful to expect both parents to make some kind of contribution. Why is his ex left with both caring for the children and supporting them? Even a minimum wage job would make a difference.

Many people walk away from divorce with nothing. Shit happens. Or the children’s fault, is it?

[Coronapop]

Not sure what he would expect TBH, since there are no assets. He needs to try and get a decent job.

[Popandcrackle]

The thing is she hasn’t been given a house. She’s been given a mortgage on a property that she would financially worse off to sell. Plus she’s going to raise his children with little financial input from him either. So no, I don’t think he’s been scammed

[bullyingadvice2017]

They are always in a marriage that's on the rocks already shaggers arnt they? Well no shit Sherlock. If he was in a ropey marriage why wasn't he adult enough and respecting his wife and kids enough to get out of that relationship first.
Thinking with his dick once again!

Also it dosent actually sound as if your bro has asked for your outrage or advice. Maybe pipe down and wind your neck in and let them deal with it between themselves.

[lurchersrool]

I just think some people are missing the point. I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them. DB will end up contributing a pittance because that'll be all he can afford and it'll make fuck all difference to their standard of living. That's why I think it's spiteful and she's doing it just to make a point. Anyway, people have given some legal pointers I'm grateful for so I'll try again to get his to see a sol. I just don't think someone should be punished for life for a simple mistake.

And thank you to the poster who feels sorry for my dad. It is pretty heartbreaking - tbh db has caused him a fair bit of worry over the years and I'm sorry he's had to see him end up in this shit position .

[DioneTheDiabolist]

If he has agreed to accept £20k, then yes it does count as her buying him out.

I'm sorry your DB is a total fucking eejit OP, but he is. He wrecked his marriage, he invested the money your dad gave him badly, he didn't get a solicitor for his divorce. He's an adult making stupid decision after stupid decision and that's all on him. Not his ExW.

[myhamsteratefreddiestarr]

The starting point is 50/50 but she may get more if she’s housing the DC .

If there is no equity then there’s nothing he can take. There will only be equity in the future as the mortgage is paid off , by her....

Half of nothing is nothing OP. It doesn’t matter what he put in if the equity is no longer there.

As for maintenance , he should be paying minimum CSA. Full stop.

[IndieTara]

Who is paying the mortgage?

[CanILeavenowplease]

I would never see my dns go without but they won't as their mother can easily support them

Big of you. Standing by and watching someone else support your nieces and then complaining about it.

I can easily support my children. My ex hasn’t paid a penny in 10 years. But the point is, they have 2 parents, and 2 parents should be contributing towards their upbringing. I didn’t make them on my own. They were a joint venture. He expects to have a relationship with them. Why does he get off scottfree from supporting them?

The answer is because people like you think it’s acceptable. It isn’t. Not at all. It’s you who’s missing the point.

[HennyPennyHorror]

There's no equity because they remortgaged as a couple...what did he think would happen? That the money would magically appear again?

I am sorry but this sort of thing drives me MAD. I watched a close friend do the same thing...now they're trapped and when the DH can't be a builder anymore because he's too old, they won't be able to pay for their house.

All so they could have a new kitchen and all that.

I'd KILL to own a house. Wouldn't care if the bathroom was old....the thought of remortgaging just to have a new kitchen or whatever is madness!

[NCforthis2019]

How on earth is what she is doing spiteful?! She's asking for him to pay for his children, which is fair and legal!!!! A simple mistake? Maybe if your husband did that to you, you wouldnt think it was a simple mistake - hes broken up his family through cheating and his children have lost whatever stability they once had. Feel sorry for the kids - not your brother. Its amazing how blind you have been in this OP - blindly being loyal to your brother is very silly, considering he is the main person to blame in this shit show.

Yes - your father shouldn't be made to worry but thats what parents do i suppose. I hope it gets better for him (your father)

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...but db is pretty vague about how it all works.
No, he's being vague when he talks to you about how it all works so you feel sorry for him and see him as a victim. He's not a victim, he's a fuckwit.

[wafflyversatile]

He needs to see a solicitor, fully set out the situation, and get proper advice.

There are lots of different ways to divide assets and share parenting when a couple splits. E.g. the family home can be sold, residency of the children can be 50/50. The cheating is irrelevant.

[Crystalintheeyes]

He needs to Pay for his bloody children!! It doesn’t matter how much she earns.

He was the one that was more interested in getting his dick wet. Now he has to pay the price. Tough shit.

[user1479305498]

Feel sorry for your dad

[JustmeandtheKIDS2]

I know you just want to protect your brother, but i think your missing the point tbh. He has put him self in this position and thats something you carnt ignore. The truth of it is that the sympathy needs to go to her as he was the one who had the affair.
I understand why he may feel angry about the 80K but yet again he should only be angry with himself, angry he didnt take legal advise about it before he just chucked it in the pot.
The fact she has done well for her self in her career should not detract from his legal responsibility to financially provide for his child.
Hes messed up big time, he needs to take responsibility for this. It is sad on your father, but yet again he should only be angry with his son.

[Schuyler]

When they’re older, do you want your brother to be able to look into the eyes of his children and say “I didn’t have much money but I gave you what was owed and what was morally right” or do you want him to make petty excuses? If he wants a good long-relationship with those little ones, he needs to step up and parent and yes, that includes paying his “pittance”.

I do feel sorry for your dad and also your DN as they are innocent in this.

[GreenTulips]

Is he having the children while she works or is she paying childcare as well?
It’s no ones fault the house has no equity is it? It’s just the market.

He can keep his share until such time that they sell ( when the kids are out of education) and get his equity then

But he needs to get a job and stick at it

[Thesnobbymiddleclassone]

He should have been wiser with the money in the first place, especially as the relationship was so new at the time.

As for the cheating, we'll what goes around comes around. The wife was always going to make sure she came off better after that.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

Your DB really ought to get himself a solicitor and he should get at least one valuation on his own behalf. It's difficult for people going through a divorce to understand all the ins and outs of what can be done or to think about the long term consequences. His Ex's solicitor will look at this for her but won't pay any attention to his long term needs and if he is disabled by his back he may have some needs that ought to be considered in the settlement, though I think the security of the kids will be a priority.

The money thing is harsh but unless the valuations are actually way, way, off (which seems unlikely from 3 different sources) - he made a bad investment, compounded with later decisions by the sounds of it, and lost the money. It's a huge shame but if there is no equity in the house it's hard to see how he's being conned. His Ex is probably also upset at the loss of capital if shes been working hard earning good money and it's all just disappeared too.

What I don't understand is why your DB is letting the kids stay with his ex if he was the main carer. How much of a main carer was he? You mentioned a year when he was a sahd, but there have been 6 other years with kids - did his ex not take maternity leave for any of those? And now, who does the majority of the care and carries the mental load regarding the kids' needs? Because if it's almost all your DB shouldn't he really be to looking into maintaining that position?

[altiara]

YABU. He’s definitely not been scammed. He’s just made a number of bad decisions eg 1) buying a house with a practical stranger and not protecting his money 2) remortgaging and buying a bigger house when he doesn’t even have a stable job/can’t work due to injury 3) cheating 4) giving you a sob story so that you think ex is being spiteful. Even though he’s only going to give his children a pittance for maintenance, you think they don’t even deserve that! (Fortunately you’re not their parent).
Even if they were still together- there is still no obvious 80k and the ex doesn’t just ‘get’ the house, she is actually paying the mortgage and if she sells the house, she still won’t magic tons of money out of the air if there is a big mortgage.
Your dad gave him the money, that was his choice. It was then your brother’s choice to make bad decisions.

[whiteroseredrose]

I do feel sorry for your dad. It's hard for a parent to accept that their child hasn't amounted to much. A dear friend is in the same situation as your DB's wife. Effectively she's supported him for years. It was actually a vast relief when he cheated and left. His parents helped with a deposit but she's been paying the mortgage and all bills for nearly 20 years so has contributed a lot more.

DF's solicitor said that the starting point in a divorce is 50:50. If there's not much equity then that's that. If he isn't earning much, it's not his ex wife's fault

[Whereareyouspot]

She presumably will still have to work to oat the mortgage on this property that currently has almost no equity
Whilst providing resident childcare
And paying off the extra 20k loan to give him the cash

In MANY years time if the market improves she might sell and doom but she will have had to lay the mortgage too in all that time

Why hasn’t he worked?

[JustmeandtheKIDS2]

I feel your pain regarding your brother, but i think your not seeing the whole picture.
I am also a single mother with 2 young children, my husband left me. My first concern regarding the finances is to make sure me and the children are in as best a financial situation as possible. Its part of my job as a mother and as resident parent to ensure they have a roof over their heads and a steady income to support them. My priority is not with my e strained husband or his financial status. She would be wrong to put him before the children.
I suspect your Dad feels very let down, unfortunately he has been by your brother not by your sil. Dont side with your brother so much that he thinks hes the victim as hes not. He needs to be accountable to his behaviour.