To ask for your opinion on this debate?

[Notss]

Hi,

My DB and one of his friends were having a debate yesterday and I’m not sure what side I’m on so thought I’d ask here. The friend, I and a few others had been invited round DB’s house for dinner and drinks.

For context; and because I don’t want to drip feed: both are mid-twenties, friend works fast food on min wage and DB earns 38k, not sure if this will be relevant later on.

The debate was as follows:

DB owns his own house (obvs with a mortgage) it’s not a huge house, just a three bed terrace; medium sized garden and 1 bathroom. He’s got a smart phone, but not the latest, he’s got a television in the living room, but not a huge one, he’s got a car which is nice but 10 years old, he goes on one holiday (mainly the states) a year with a couple of shorter UK ones.

The friend lives at home with his mother. He’s got a 52” HD television, latest phone, goes to Spain and Amsterdam on the regular. He doesn’t drive but said if he did he would be able to buy a flash car. He actually said “I can buy all the weed I want, but your buying plonk!” (We we’re drinking cheap wine.) Bascially, friend was arguing that my DB was stupid for buying a house and having to pay all the bills, when he could live at home and have disposable income out the wazoo.

My brother argued that he enjoys the independance and that you couldn’t live with your parents your whole life you have to grow up at some point. (For context, rent is cheap round here; friend could afford to move out.)

At first I sided with my brother, but now I think about it didn’t the friend have a point? Why is it expected to move out in your 20s... in other cultures living with parents until marriage is common, and DB would have a much healthier financial life if he still lived with mum and dad...

So; what’s the concensus here?

For me both have a point but surely the benefit of staying at home should be to save for future security. To stay at home for a big tv and weed sounds like a wasted opportunity.

I would want my independence and my own home any day of the week. You can keep all the fancy toys and holidays.

Well I can't see many women queuing up to marry what sounds like a selfish man child who still lives with his parents and spends all his money on having a good time for a start. It's a good job he has a home with his parents, because it sounds like he's going to need it for the foreseeable.

in other cultures living with parents until marriage is common, yes but they tend to be family orientated cultures, with a religious bias, not out spliffing. Those cultures also tend to pool money to buy business and home for families starting out.

You do realise someone will come along with a calculator and say that the sibling who moved out should inherit proportionally more as they havent been subsidised by the parents for X years .....

Well, that’s what I thought too; as regards saving for the future; that’s exactly what DB did; stayed at home until he had secured his mortgage (he was 23 when he moved out.)

That’s a good point about inheritance, but this friend is an only child; this was actually one of his points - why would he want his own house when as soon as his mum dies he can have hers mortgage free!

I can't think of anything worse than sitting around waiting for my parents to die before getting my own place. You could easily be 60 before that happened!

Personally I think having a flat with a mortgage is a healthier financial situation than sitting at home whilst house prices inevitably rise, hoping you inherit one day.

I love my parents and have a good relationship with them both, but I would find it really difficult to live with them as an adult. I really value my independence; I like to be able to come and go as I please without any well-meaning questions about where I'm off to, I like to eat meals when it suits me, to be able to decorate my surroundings in a way that appeals to me.

I mean, great for the guy if he genuinely enjoys living with his mum, but I don't think he's hit upon some universal truth or anything.

@notss - perhaps Mum likes having her son at home? Have you thought of that?

I have many children, technically still at home, frequently all I see is a weeks washing dropped off and swapped for fresh as they head off out again. So this bollox about not having any freedom is indeed bollox! Im more than happy to stick al oad of washing on in turn for not having to cook every night

why would he want his own house when as soon as his mum dies he can have hers mortgage free! unless of course it goes to pay for her care home etc ... best he sorts that out and gets on the deeds now.

I lived at home until I moved in with now dh, it worked for me but it wouldn't have worked for my dB as he kept clashing with our dad. I imagine it's the same for alot of men.

I think your dB has made the better choice. He's got in the housing ladder younger so will be better in the long run. It's also more appealing to ladies if you have your own place rather than living with mummy and daddy.

why would he want his own house when as soon as his mum dies he can have hers mortgage free!

And what if mummy lives to be 90. He'll be 60 odd before he owns his own home. That's a lifetime of renting or living with parents.

I don't think either of them are wrong. They have both chosen the better option according to their means. I bought my first house last year and I'm very proud of that but without a partner and on minimum wage it just wouldn't have been possible to save for the deposit or qualify for a mortgage so I doubt I would have tried.

Your brother chose the right path for his income, he knew he could get on the housing ladder within a few years and then go on to have quality of life. The friend chose the right path for a minimum wage job, a mortgage is unlikely so he chose to prioritise quality of life over a stable future.

Both of them are unreasonable for arguing the other was wrong when they live in different circumstances.

Perhaps his mum does like having him at home and maybe he does pay towards his keep and help her out and do his share of housework, DIY etc, but from the picture painted in the OP with the weed and frequent travel and expensive gadgets with low wage employment, it sounds unlikely somehow.

I come from a culture where it is normal and expected for extended families to live either in the same house or very close together. Yes, resources are pooled but that means the entire family is responsible for other costs i.e. medical care of elderly relatives. Everyone shares other burdens as well, e.g. childcare or looking after elderly relatives. Finally, and crucially, the other side of the coin is that everyone has a say in your life, which can be quite suffocating for a lot of people.

He's mid 20s so his mum is probably around 60 at the oldest! he could have a long wait.
I think lots of guys don't grow up properly till 26+; the friend sounds like a teenager and his views will probably change, especially once he wants a girlfriend and eventually his own family.
Your brother sounds sensible and sorted, both these guys seem to be enjoying themselves, but your bro is taking the long term view which will benefit him and his future family in the long run.

The other way to look at this is that there is a housing crisis - so why would two people occupy two properties, leaving at least one of those properties with an empty bedroom?

Someone will suggest she rents it out!
or sells the house and moves away and down sizes!
And he on his min wage job can try and get an artificially inflated rent, and HB to top it up.

But in fairness, other peoples lives aren’t actually anyone else’s business are they? Each lives according to what suits them best, there is no right or wrong

Which one would you feel happier introducing to parents as a new boyfriend?

I think your brother is in a far better position, with a better attitude, and I think this will be a widening of the gap between them as time progresses if his friend remains as he is.

Perhaps your brother has benefited from things his friend didn't have the opportunity to. Perhaps he made better decisions. I wouldn't be overly judgemental as to how they ended up in their relative positions.

But friend's apparent contentment to remain as he is is something I take issue with. It seems very slack and unambitious.

I'd rather do what your DB did, but as long as his friend and mother are happy then it's their choice. My children will have a room here for as long as they need/want one and if they come back after university and stay living here then that's fine - my eldest has left home but still has a bedroom here, we've changed it from a single child's bedroom into a double bedroom for them and their long term partner.

One of my staff is from one of those cultures where women go from their parents' home to their husbands, the sons are set up in business, the women are expected to work hard but ultimately their husbands will be the main earners...

My guts clench when I hear what is the norm for her - multigenerational living, she'll be leaving because she's moving to where her husband lives, no cohabiting before, her had tells her what she can and can't do, and she obeys. She is also totally spoilt financially, but also not 'flash' with it. She'll flash a £20k engagement ring with no sensitivity whatsoever, but also no 'side' to it.

But on the flip side, she's entirely happy in her naivety and immaturity. She's a very capable worker, and doesn't have to work. She'll pass on to her next phase of life entirely joyfully.

Cultural or not, some people are just made that way. They see life as the exact sum of what it is, without concerning themselves about the 'right' life path.

Each to their own. I wouldn't let my son be subsidised by me well into his twenties, no way. However if everyone's ok with it not a problem. Do let us know when he gets a girlfriend, I expect she'll change his ways