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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Downstairs neighbours complaining about floor installed 5 years ago

46 replies

pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 10:41

I need to know who is being unreasonable here. We have lived in our flat in a beautiful detached Edwardian building since 2007. We love it here. We moved in when I was expecting my daughter and now, 12 years on, there are the four of us and our cats. Our flat is on the first floor - there is one flat downstairs, one upstairs and us...sandwiched in the middle. Last week, we had a run in with our downstairs neighbours which was really scary - they blow hot and cold at the best of times - one minute they want to be best friends and then when anything isn't as they want it, they get really arsey rather than trying to approach things maturely. So...we were getting a new Amtico floor installed in our bedroom last week. The workmen arrived at 8.30 to install it. within ten minutes, both she and her husband were banging on our door in their dressing gowns screaming at me - what the hell did we think we were doing, that it's unreasonable to have workmen at 8.30 am and that she didn't go to bed until late and was trying to sleep (the late bedtime has nothing to do with being a shift worker - she works in recruitment). I told her to come in and scream at the workmen who told her, quite rightly that they are legally contracted to work between the 'reasonable' hours of 8am and 6pm. For context we had given verbal notice to them which they say they don't remember. Anyway, my husband wasn't here at the time and I was trying to get the kids out of the door to school. I thought nothing more of it though I was shaking with nerves/ anger/ adrenalin - perhaps a combo of all three. Yesterday my husband informed me that he'd been bombarded with texts from 'her' all week. Saying we are selfish and how if we are going to be selfish they will be too. So they've been playing their music really loudly to the point the furniture in our lounge (which is very soundproofed - we picked up every floorboard and stuffed insulation in before laying a very thick carpet several years back). They're now choosing to complain that our Amtico floor which was laid in our hallway in 2014/15 is really annoying them and they hope that the workmen are installing carpet. Now the carpet we replaced was old, the underlay was thin and the floors were creaky. Now all the floorboards are screwed down, there is a layer of plywood, a levelling compound and the Amtico which is essentially a vinyl and nowhere near as noisy underfoot as wood floorboards or laminate. Also we don't wear shoes in the house and the kids are mindful of the fact we live in a flat. The people above us have laminate throughout and, though we can hear them - it's not bad noise - just people living their lives and part and parcel of living in a flat. The problem downstairs have is that their entire flat is wood floor throughout and no soft furnishings - shutters not curtains, leather sofas etc. You can hear everything echoing in there when you walk past their front door. It sounds like an empty house if you know what I mean. So they've got nothing in there to absorb noise. When we moved in here, we actually put a fake ceiling in the lounge and insulated that. My husband is a typical Englishman, starts every sentence with sorry - picture Hugh Grant. He's all for keeping people happy and is suggesting we lay rugs over our lovely floors. I don't want to do this, it's a slip hazard and also a pain to clean the floors if I've got to lift big rugs in order to mop the hard floors etc. Sorry this is a real rant (very therapeutic). I should also mention we are share of freehold and there is nothing in our lease which prohibits the laying of hard floors - in fact vinyl is mentioned as a permitted material and Amtico is a vinyl. Also in terms of us being selfish - it couldn't be further from the truth. Baring in mind they are two people in their 50s and one of them is semi retired - they've never done anything to contribute to the upkeep of the property. In comparison, we tend to the front garden, have painted the entire hall and stairway and front door, built a new side entrance door. We do all the research for new purchases for the building and pay for them then wait for the other flat owners to reimburse us. We also handle all the tiresome admin of the building insurance. We are not bad neighbours.

OP posts:
pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 13:43

WendyCope - if downstairs did what we had done - ie insulate the ceiling, add a little bit of soft furnishing to absorb the noise then they would have nothing to complain about - we don't complain about the noise above us. It's the same thing. Surely your husband explained that to you too ie that noise and vibrations can be dampened with soft furnishings?
Up to you what you do with your floors - I like to mop mine and I think that's a choice I'm entitled to make, don't you?

OP posts:
pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 13:46

crockof...exactly! She works a 9-5 job - she might work from home some days - I don't know her whereabouts all the time but I do know she's not a shift worker - if that were the case we would be double checking and trying to work around shifts. At some point this year we plan on having the kitchen re-fitted - new floors and everything. That could go on for two weeks - and we're perfectly entitled to do that. We will have a hard floor in the kitchen where we spend a lot more time trampling around than we do in our bedroom. And I still go back to the fact they should have said 5 years ago if it was an issue.

OP posts:
Merchantgirl · 18/02/2019 13:54

I'd put a stop to that illegal building OP surely it invalidates your buildings insurance on the whole house? And what happens when they sell?

cyclecamper · 18/02/2019 14:01

They sound dreadful. I hope they get a grip!

My grandparents lived in a ground floor flat with an absolutely horrible woman in the basement flat below. My Nanny was very timid and frail and the neighbour used to come storming upstairs at the slightest noise, which was frankly only when the grandchildren were visiting, infrequently, as none of us lived close. There was an assumption that she was a nurse as she 'worked nights' so we had to tiptoe so we didn't wake her. Eventually they moved away and we were all relieved, and thought no more about the nasty woman, until the news report a few years later of the murder of a 'masseuse'. Yep, it was her. Sometimes people get more than their comeuppance.

pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:08

It upsets me because between the hours of 9 and 3, Monday to Friday, it's just me here. I work from home and spend most of the day at my desk. I might potter around for an hour or so doing laundry but that's it. The kids are at activities until 5/6pm on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and they're in bed by 9. They are 9 and 11 and don't run around but they can be heavy footed which we're trying to teach them not to be but they're kids! Our lounge is above their lounge - I often have to work to the sound of their house music (weird music choices foro 50-somethings). He works in sound systems and PA hire so has a cracking system with a pounding base. It can sometimes shake our furniture and we have the plushest, thickest carpet in here and a soundproofed floor. We try to live and let live. It's a hallway - we do not spend that much time in a hallway - it would have been quite practical to put hard floors in the children's rooms - the amount of times they've been sick on carpets, spilt drinks etc. But they have carpet as we thought about them dropping toys, running toy cars etc. We only put the hard floor in the hallway when they were 5 and 7 years of age so past the clumsy falling toddler phase.

OP posts:
LuckyLou7 · 18/02/2019 14:08

You mention Amtico flooring so many times in your OP I thought this was a stealth advert. Grin

When you live in a flat, you really have to get on with your neighbours, it can be hell if you don't. It sounds as if you have done everything you can to minimise the noise from your flat, but it's the workmen starting at 8.30am who have triggered this latest round of abuse. Does she realise how much her own workmen disturbed your family before she moved in?

fruitbrewhaha · 18/02/2019 14:10

I don't think people complain 'just for the sake of it' You are clearly upsetting them. It is a last resort.

Yes, but normal people don't scream in your face. Normal people when faced with an issue don't threaten to move out and move in a large Nigerian family.

Merchantgirl · 18/02/2019 14:13

I'd start implementing the terms of the lease and freehold and hope they move out-shouldn't have bought a gff if they are that bothered by children's noise and trust me, I've lived in a gff but this sounds like they'll moan at anything.

WendyCope · 18/02/2019 14:13

If that's true...

Two sides to every story.

pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:14

LuckyLou7. Lol Did I? I think just to point out its not wood or laminate but a vinyl. And not bare floorboards as I've discovered from googling a LOT of first floor flats have. When I pointed out to her during her latest tirade that we put up with 18 months of renovations from her - she said "And what did you husband do? He complained it was unreasonable" And I said "Because 9pm/10pm IS unreasonable). She's used to getting her own way and trampling over people to get it is the feeling I have of her. To be fair her husband hasn't really said anything - though she chose to send the messages from his phone purporting to be him (the tone of the message suggested otherwise and she tripped up at one point by mentioning him in the third person).I have no doubt that eventually this will just fizzle out again. But always living on pins isn't much fun. And if it wasn't the floor it would be something else). She's really not suited to flat living.

OP posts:
pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:15

Wendy Cope....if what's true?

OP posts:
pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:19

luckylou7 - before they moved in, we had an old lady who was very deaf living downstairs. We could hear her TV and we could hear her playing hymns on the piano. It really didn't bother us. This was before we'd done work to soundproof though.

OP posts:
Jux · 18/02/2019 14:21

Check on your Council website what they say about noise. 8am sounds like a normal start time for diy and any other work, but I'm not sure about the end time. 6pm sounds fine to me, and 10pm for normal life type noise. There are sometimes bye-laws which adjust the times for noise, they'll be on the Council site.

Tara336 · 18/02/2019 14:21

I own a ground floor maisonette and I have to say you would be surprised how noisy it can be. My neighbours can’t walk up the stairs they stamp up them, then bang and crash about when they’ve had a night out and wake me up at 1.30am, music stupidly loud sometimes I can’t hear my tv. They are twats and I can’t wait for them to move. I have asked them to turn the music down and they do, but it is frustrating having to even ask as I try to be a considerate neighbour. Maybe you are a noisy neighbour and just don’t realise? although I personally can’t see a problem with workmen on a weekday at 8

pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:26

Tara336. I really don't think we are. We just 'live' Don't play loud music, don't allow kids to have many play dates because of noise, have never had a kids party at home, don't allow them to play with balls inside - even to the point if we have a bath late at night we won't take the plug out until the morning because the noise of the water going down can be noisy. Don't run the tumble drier at night or the washing machine. Believe me there's a lot we don't do that we would if we lived in a house. I think they just need to put some soft things in their flat to dampen the noise. And they can do what we did and add in the false ceiling. My issue is there are lots of things they could do to improve the situation but choose not to.

OP posts:
pinksplutterweasel · 18/02/2019 14:27

Jux I have done that just to check that we weren't being out of order and sure enough we were working well within the entitled times. Work finished about 3pm.

OP posts:
youknowmedontyou · 18/02/2019 14:28

But you think YANBU, so don't ask. My neighbours just about gave me a nervous breakdown with the same antics.

What antics? As far as I can see OP has not done any antics? Workmen arriving at 8.30 is hardly antics.

OP, if the try to talk carry on walking, if they play their music to ensure your furniture shakes that's fine! Play yours speaker down at 6.30 when your kids get up. If they are that bloody sensitive then they can move out! I bloody hate unreasonable people and prior to having my own children I'd hear next doors, sometimes crying at 2am, it's life get over it!

DarlingNikita · 18/02/2019 14:31

I know that people with kids think that 8am is late in the day, and that reasonable hours start then (because the world is run by people with kids!) But I would also be pissed at workman arriving and working at that time.

I don't have kids and I'm up before 8am. But anyway, the workmen started at 8.30am in this case. Which is well within allowed hours –which, as the OP says, aren't decided by her personally anyway!

The neighbours are hypocrites from the OP's later message, complaining about this when they have had work done until 9–10 at night.

79andnotout · 18/02/2019 14:40

8.30 am is a perfectly reasonable time for the workmen to start.

OP they sound like horrible neighbours and it makes me very glad I don't live in a flat.

UniversalAunt · 18/02/2019 14:56

Hmm, living in a flat in a subdivided house can be very challenging as the original structure/building was not designed to meet up-to-date noise management standards. However much soundproofing & adaptation is put in place, sound will travel in all directions.

Yes, 8am is a reasonable start.
Yes, bare floors, walls & minimal furnishing make an echo chamber of the best built flat. So in some respects your neighbour is getting their auditory knickers in a twist.

I know you are steamed up at the moment but some of your approach to this issue is laying the grounds for further problems. However goady you may feel at the moment, you need a cool head to sort this out as you need to live in peace with your neighbours in your own home & you need to manage well what is probably your biggest financial asset.

So...

Baring in mind they are two people in their 50s and one of them is semi retired what has their age & retirement got to do with this?
What needs to be bourne in mind due to their age ?
If they work from home, they WFH.

they've never done anything to contribute to the upkeep of the property as freeholders, do not pay into a freeholder maintenance fund?

we tend to the front garden, have painted the entire hall and stairway and front door, built a new side entrance door. Are these common parts? Are these planned cyclical works ?

We do all the research for new purchases for the building and pay for them then wait for the other flat owners to reimburse us. Is this all dealt with as advance funded cyclical work discussed & agreed by all the freeholders?

We also handle all the tiresome admin of the building insurance That’s good of you. It can be tiresome but it is in all your interests for it to be done properly. Perhaps your upstairs/downstairs neighbours could do it next year?

Wedgiecar58 · 18/02/2019 15:09

Ignore them, and if they continue with the blaring music call the non-emergency police.

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