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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What are your red lines?

24 replies

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 08:12

Before I start- I’m sure like most people I have raised my voice at the kids- I have an absolute red line regarding me or anyone else swearing at them or others around them in anger & any use of aggressive physical force at all ever is abuse.
However I’m genuinely curious if this is the same for everybody. What’s your red line here? Some people wouldn’t tolerate their OH raising their voice at the kids - others accept that but won’t have swearing. What counts as unacceptable physically? A rough grab of the hand/picking kids up /sitting them down too roughly them down when telling off? Pushing them out the way?
If your OH lost their temper at / around the kids and they were scared would you end it there and then? Or support your OH to get help to manage anger?
What I’m saying is is this a black and white issue or a grey area for you?

OP posts:
LilaJude · 16/02/2019 08:18

I don’t have kids yet but I think any aggression around children would be a red line for me. It’s so absolutely unnecessary and so frightening for a child, who is so much smaller than a grown man.

In terms of helping a man with his anger, I would only do this if the man himself had realised at the first sign of aggression that it isn’t acceptable and sought serious help on his own. I would do my best to help in that situation.

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 08:22

Thanks Lilajude- what would count as aggression for you?

OP posts:
FudgeBrownie2019 · 16/02/2019 08:39

It's difficult at times because as the DC get older there are times they're reined in by different people; DS13 is very sporty so on the pitch (rugby, cricket and football) coaches can raise voices and things can get heated between players. He also does a martial art and again there are moments where he's had to be told off; it's rare, but I'd never dream of stepping in and telling coaches that they can't raise voices or shout at my precious firstborn (unless it was totally unreasonably handled and it never has been so far).

At home, Ex and I parent DS13 similarly, as do Ex's DW and my DH; none of us is particularly shouty or aggressive, so if he's rude or misbehaves occasionally, all it takes is a word of warning and he'll bring himself back into line. DS8 is much, much more feisty and has a fire in his belly that DS13 doesn't, so there are times both DH and I have raised our voices at him in ways we'd never have needed to with DS13.

Ex has told off DS8 on occasion and whilst he's never realised his voice, I'm ok with it purely because I trust Ex implicitly to help 'parent' DS8 positively.

Physical violence or aggression is never acceptable in any form. Grabbing, pushing, shoving, rough-handling, any of it and I'd have no hesitation in wiping the floor with whoever it was. It's not how I've raised the DC, it's not how we parent and it's not something I tolerate. I don't want them to be afraid of me. I don't want to rule through fear - I want them to do the right thing because it feels good to make good choices.

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 08:46

Interesting. Thanks fudgebrownie.
Seems you have v clear red lines even though you’re accepting of everybody having a different style of parenting /coaching and also that children need different approaches.
I posted because I’m personally uncomfortable with OHs behaviour toward our children at times- but was unsure how others would see it

OP posts:
Iggly · 16/02/2019 08:48

I posted because I’m personally uncomfortable with OHs behaviour toward our children at times- but was unsure how others would see it

Examples?

Surely the issue is whether you’ve asked him not to and how the kids find it.

Designerenvy · 16/02/2019 08:50

I try mainly to explain things but I have been known to "lose it" on ocassion ( again, raised voices but no swearing and never physical ). When I do, I usually regret it and calm myself down before returning to the topic at hand.
I don't believe physical punishment teaches a child anything but fear and violence.
I don't believe " raising your voice " is a bad thing in some situations. Kids need to realise if they've crossed the line.
I don't raise my voice too often, when I do, the kids know I mean business and they've gone too far !
The red line for me would be name calling, any physical punishment ( hitting, grabbing, pushing) , swearing at the kids but a raised voice , occasionally, I'm ok with, as long as it's not continuous ..... that could wear a kid down .

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 08:56

It started with him snapping at the kids by raising his voice very suddenly and loudly which freaked them out- I saw it as a loss of control and his frustration and asked him to step away if he felt that. More recently he’s sworn- shouted and once called one child an idiot- always in temper and always quickly calmed down and apologised but no less frightening for the kids. I’ve seen him pick one up roughly when they were having a giant tantrum- and shove him down roughly onto the sofa- at a time when the child needed to be comforted or given space. It made the situation worse. I’ve seen him push one of the children away from him in anger when they were being noisy, in his personal space and pulling or pushing him. He’s basically very reactionary and gets quickly angry when our kids need us to stay calm.
I’ve made it clear none of the above is ok- he agrees- but I’ve notice it’s creeping in- as his stress levels are high so it doesn’t take much to tip him over the edge and I’m worried he loses control quite easily.

OP posts:
FudgeBrownie2019 · 16/02/2019 08:58

I posted because I’m personally uncomfortable with OHs behaviour toward our children at times- but was unsure how others would see it

The thing is, so many types of parents are going to offer so many varied opinions. I'd go with your gut; if you instinctively don't 'like' or feel right about something he's doing as a parent, you are the first and main one who can challenge it. And you have every right to do that.

Anything that damages a child's confidence should be a red line. Anything that causes physical harm should be a red line. I don't know about supporting the other person through it, but I do know that the other person would need to be 100% invested in making a change before I committed to staying with them.

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 09:02

I think you’re right. My gut is some of it wasn’t ok. I have made that clear and have stated that any physical aggression or swearing again and I think he needs time away- at least temporarily to bring stress levels down and seek help

OP posts:
Queenofthestress · 16/02/2019 09:07

I have physically moved my kids, and will give a smacked bum on occasion (I have only done it twice in ds's 5 years of life and have never ever left even a red mark) as that is how my parents raised me and the rest of my family raises their kids. It works for us. I have never ever done anything in anger or when annoyed. I don't shout, scream, swear or call names. Thats the deciding factor. If you are doing something to punish your kids you should be calm and collected.

TooTrueToBeGood · 16/02/2019 09:29

He's teaching them that an acceptable response to things not going your way is to lose your temper. The kids will learn that throwing tantrums is an acceptable tactic because that is effectively what he is doing. I've raised 3 kids and 2 stepkids to adulthood and now have several grandkids. I've never raised my voice in anger to any of them, nor has my wife, and we've never had any noteworthy behavioural issues with them. Anything that causes the child fear or pain is a red line for me, no ifs, no buts, no excuses. My role as an adult is to coach, support and love the children in my life, not to terrorise or bully them.

TheFuckfaceWhisperer · 16/02/2019 09:35

I’ve never heard the expression red line, but your DP is a bully with anger issues and your kids need to not be around him.

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 09:45

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_line_(phrase)

OP posts:
TheFuckfaceWhisperer · 16/02/2019 17:44

I didn’t say it didn’t exist, just I’ve never heard of it. And to be fair, only that one website mentions it so it’s not exactly widely in use. But ignore all the rest of my message by all means... Hmm

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 16/02/2019 18:09

Not at all. I appreciated your message and was genuinely trying to be helpful. It’s a widely used term - in my experience at least so was trying to help explain that’s all

OP posts:
Slowknitter · 16/02/2019 18:14

I don't think I have a specified red line because I've never needed one. I would go with my gut feeling tbh.

nakedscientist · 17/02/2019 10:14

I thought similarly, slow, you have noticed your redline, OP, because DH has already stepped over it.

It sounds like your DC's are little, imagine how he will cope with a 6' out of line teen!

Have you tried suggesting parenting books? I loved Andrew Green's Toddler Taming.

StopMakingAFoolOutofMe · 17/02/2019 10:23

If DH laid a hand on the DC with aggression, to move them, smack them or force them in any way, that would be a deal breaker for me. Physical contact is never, ever necessary for discipline.

We've never needed to raise voices. They just don't need it. I don't advocate any aggression when raising children.

Shoxfordian · 17/02/2019 10:26

His behaviour wouldn't be ok with me, he shouldn't behave aggressively towards you or your children. They'll grow up thinking its alright to act like this and they'll be scared of him.

BlueJava · 17/02/2019 10:28

A red line for me would be anything physical at all - including pushing, shoving out the way etc. Occasiionally shouting I'm ok with. I something swear, DH never does.

Bambamber · 17/02/2019 10:36

If he knows it is wrong, what help has he sought to help prevent it happening again?

Confusedfornow · 17/02/2019 11:18

OP. Presumably none of your kids are ever planning on joining the armed forces, or the Emergency services.

Out of curiousity, how do they react when somebody shouts at them?..

Whatcouldpossiblygowrong · 17/02/2019 11:34

I’m not sure what that’s got to do with it. If they wanted to join the armed forces or emergency services as adults they’d be making choices for themselves about the environment and situation they’re in. As kids- both under 8 and one with SN- it frightens them and in my view is unnecessary

OP posts:
LilaJude · 17/02/2019 11:47

what would count as aggression?

Physical: hitting, shoving, roughly grabbing (except when avoiding danger etc), dragging, pinching etc.

Non-physical: sustained shouting (eg more than just a snap), swearing, name calling.

I would be very worried about your DH’s behaviour, I totally understand why you are.

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