Is this a scam? How?

[Chipbutty67]

Hey MN,

Need some help. I’m selling a relatively high value item (£400+) on Gumtree. Shortly after I posted it, I got a message from a very interested buyer offering full price.

The bit that gives me pause is the buyer wants to have it picked up by a courier. I agreed and asked for the courier to pay cash or a bank transfer but the buyer has just messaged to say they only have access to Paypal as a payment method.

I’ve used PayPal before and I know it’s fairly secure, I just find it odd that no other method is available.

Am I being paranoid? Or is this some obscure scam?

Thanks,
Fariha

ReflectentMonatomism Cash or bank transfer are both perfectly safe - cash obviously also needing to be transacted in a safe environment.

Therefore it doesn't matter if it is a scam or not. It simply doesn't matter, and the seller doesn't have to bother fretting whether it is an elaborate scam or the not-at-all-rare buyer who genuinely thinks Paypal is safer than cash.

Don’t do it! I was selling my car and got a message from a ‘deaf’ women Who couldn’t talk on the phone and wanted to have a van of hers come and tow my car away!
I got very close to the end where she had transferred the money and told me that the courier was on its way, I ended up ringing PayPal as the money was frozen and wanted to check it was legit, PayPal told me it was a scam and they’re registered address was a random library in Scotland! I nearly lost a £3000 car, will never ever sell anything high value on gumtree unless they’re in the same area as me and pay me on collection themselves.
Ps (not meaning to comment my life story but gumtree can be very scary at times)

If you're in any doubt whatsoever, and you can be bothered to do so, tell them that the courier will need to bring a signed letter from them acknowledging that the item is, as stated in the listing, 'collection only' and so would not be posted, and authorising the named courier to collect on their behalf, accepting all liability from the point of (filmed) handover.

You will make a short video of you handing the (unwrapped, visible) item to the courier, stating what goods you're handing over, asking the courier to clearly state the name of the (supposed) buyer, on whose behalf they confirm they are collecting the clearly identified item and that, having received the item, it is now their sole responsibility to deliver it safely to the buyer.

Also be firm that the courier's costs are between the buyer and the courier - nothing to do with you and you will not be handling any excess payments ostensibly for this purpose.

You will find that your extremely keen buyer will suddenly disappear without a trace as they realise that you're a 'live' one and they move on to an easier victim.

Yes it’s a scam - as pp said there was another thread about this same thing earlier in the week. You can learn about the scam here:

www.paypal-community.com/t5/Payments/Is-this-a-Paypal-Scam-on-Gumtree/td-p/976894

www.paypal-community.com/t5/PayPal-Basics/Beware-Gumtree-Scam/td-p/1184133/page/5

Only real way to guarantee is to meet in person and for them to pay cash. As they are so keen to pay full price ASAP sellers often get caught out.

The alternative is you tell them you will get price for courier and you organise and say you’ll add to total. Then when total money is actually with you you can send and you have proof via whatever service you use. If they say no or do provide address you’ll soon have answer.

Don’t do it! I was selling my car and got a message from a ‘deaf’ women Who couldn’t talk on the phone and wanted to have a van of hers come and tow my car away!

It's unusual for them to be based within this country (if they indeed are). The car-buying scam normally goes that a buyer somewhere in a different continent (whether or not they actually are) has apparently been looking on a UK car-selling website, has set their heart on a common, unremarkable UK-spec (so right-hand drive) car and is willing to pay thousands to have it couriered over to their own country.

Presumably, many people don't question why they wouldn't just find a car for sale in their own country.

They tell you that they'll wire the money over to you - say £5,000 for the car and another £5,000 for you to pass directly on to their UK-based courier, to avoid extra fees (alarm bells here, anybody?!)

Somebody turns up, you give them the car and their £5,000 'fee' and they go away.

The money is made to look like it's cleared into your account, but it never actually does; so they've got your £5K car and an extra £5K 'gift' from your for their trouble.

In an even more ludicrous version of the scam, particularly if the car you're selling is of a low value, they won't even bother coming to collect the car - they'll just apparently wire £6K to you, ask you to forward the £5K transport fee to the courier the day before they're due to collect your £1K car. You send £5K, which does leave your account, from the £6K, which hasn't actually cleared into your account (and never will) - very easy way for them to steal £5K, as long as you have access to it in the first place.

Cash or bank transfer are both perfectly safe

Good to learn that forged notes don’t exist.

ReflectentMonatomism I guess you never leave your house if you are so scared of the world? Maybe you need lessons in common sense rather than listening to and spreading so much hysterical scaremongering?

I hardly think the advice "once someone has attempted to scam you once, do not attempt to do business with them a second time thinking you will continue to spot their trick" constitutes hysteria.

Webuiltthisbuffetonsausageroll , without going in to too much detail that is pretty much what happened, they froze the money in PayPal then wanted me to transfer some money via a post office thing (transfer money abroad basically) they probably would have never have collected the car - and like you said just take the money I transferred

Cash or bank transfer are both perfectly safe

Whilst I have accepted both - this isn't strictly true. Forged notes exist and bank transfers can be reversed if fraud has occurred which would be highly likely for scammers.

Maybe you need lessons in common sense

Sure, it's "common sense" trying to complete a legitimate transaction with people who have clearly demonstrated they are dishonest criminals.

Can you not get a receipt from the courier to say it was collected and insist that it's the buyers responsibility to ensure its adequately insured etc.?

Can you not get a receipt from the courier to say it was collected and insist that it's the buyers responsibility to ensure its adequately insured etc.?. Yes - but PayPal will just refund them so it's pointless. just to be clear.

THIS IS A SCAM - don't try to outwit people who have shown they are criminals using a well proven route to get money from you - just ignore them and sell to someone legit, it's not hard.

Yup, scam. They will either send a fake 'paypal' email claiming your money is there but on't be released until item arrives, or use a stolen account to pay, or just chargeback the money. Often they will 'overpay' too and ask for the cash to be sent back with the courier or to be western unioned to them too..

Bank transfer is not safe. I thought that when selling a high end phone, it got reversed a few months later. My bank account was also closed because of it, as my bank said that there was an active fraud case going on that involved me Oddly enough, the fraud case against me was nothing, as I was just one of many sellers who had recieved bank transfers, seriously there were about 20 of us apparently..but still pissed off my bank closed my account because of it! When I complained again once case was closed, they said that they can close my account for any reason and they stand by their decision! Was a very odd situation.