AIBU to say sorry but it’s not my problem? (parking thread)

[MotherOfDragons90]

Here is an utterly terrible diagram of the parking situation outside my house.

Basically, we are a long row of terraces coming out straight into a main road and thus we all have garages on a block round the side. There isnt really any parking for us apart from the garage and the space in front (which is obviously ours in the deeds).

Our garage is the blue one. The houses start where the yellow scribble and Red Garage neighbor lives next to his garage, us next to him, and white garage neighbor next to us (there are more houses but their garage blocks are elsewhere).

So as you can see there is a shared driveway entrance that leads up to our three garages and parking spots. It is fairly tight especially for us in the middle, but you can fit 3 cars on.

The issue is that the house to the right is like a bungalow/cottage type thing, bigger, with its own drive and parking spot. However weirdly their front door is round the side, so it opens up onto our shared drive way. They’ve put a picket fence (the brown L shape) around their front door presumably to stop White Garage neighbor from parking right outside their front door. But this makes it quite difficult for WGN to park his car well because he obviously has to manoeuvre around this and then tuck himself in IYSWIM.

He does it if I’m already on our middle drive with my car but if I’m not, he parks really far over on to our drive so I can’t park without encroaching a similar amount onto RGNs drive. And he has a big van so he gets annoyed!

I’ve asked them to move their car a few times now and they always do but then park the same way a few days later, and when I go round they always cite how difficult it is for them to park because of Bungalow neighbors fence.

I get that, but it isn’t really my problem! They own the house so surely they should have thought about that when they bought it, no?

But I’m at a loss of what to do next. Any tips on how to approach this without a mass neighbourly falling out please?

If the land that the fence is on is part of the right of way, then nothing can be built on it, or obstruct it in any way, no matter who owns it.

You can download the deeds for the bungalow for a few pounds. Should tell you on there whether it's a shared area or not. If it is then a quiet word with the bungalow about the fence is required.

I guess if it comes down to solicitors letters you then need to decide whether to keep out of it or share the costs with your neighbour.

And paint one right next to the fence, right on the boundary. If any part of the fence overhangs the boundary then it is fair game as it is 'trespassing'

Also, write a letter to every house in your list, including those who don't park there as you want everyone to know you are not being unreasonable you just want to access your property.

State clearly that the erection of the little fence is causing issues and is likely to end in damage to cars and/or fence. That for XX years, despite access being tight, without the fence there had never been any issue with you all accessing your spaces and garages. That the fence is the direct cause of the issue and that you are politely asking the owners of the fence to reconsider their actions, for the sake of neighbourliness and also not blocking the legal access for that 3rd garage.

End with the fact that as you are indirectly affected you will happily support, or start, any legal proceedings that may be taken regarding the blocking of access.

See what they all say!

They may have right of way but theres no way they are allowed to put a fence up on a shared driveway. But ultimately not your problem it's down to the other neighbour to raise it with fence owner neighbour. To protect your issue definitely lines drawn.

I would be checking the deeds of picket fence person. If they do not own it - down comes the fence.

If they do - white van man needs to stop parking on your bit of driveway and you should continue to tell him to move whenever he does.

Why can't you all park your cars in your garages instead of on the drive? Are you even allowed to park cars there?

The fence is nothing to do with you. Keep out of it.

Your issue is with your neighbour who encroaches into your space. You must repeatedly ask them to stop. It’s up to them to sort the issue of the fence (if there is indeed one to sort).

It's not clear to me why you're getting involved - you're literally the middle(wo)man in this, with no actual responsibility for any of it. Clear garage and bungalow need to sort things out between themselves - Clear saying "if you take down your blocking fence I promise never to block you in" is what's needed, and you're not part of that at all.

You're all so passive!

It will get sorted far more quickly if someone just tackles it head on!

Believe me, we have enough bloody parking wars round here. One confident, informed conversation and it all goes away - to be repeated when the next new people move in!

I’ve asked them, and apparently they do own that tiny little patch as it is the only way to get out of their house and onto their drive.

Even if you own a patch of land, you don't automatically have the right to put a fence on it.

Have you had a go at getting everyone together and seeing if you can sort it out? Sounds like you might have but if not.....

If bungalow neighbours are concerned about someone parking just outside their front door, then surely a simple promise from white garage man that he won't do that could persuade them to take down the fence? They may not realise what difficulties it is causing. Getting into legal battles with neighbours never ends well (except for the lawyers) so it would be far better to try and sort this out between yourselves.

This is not difficult for the white garage at all (imo).

They pull into the space and then use the little gap between their car and the bungalow's fence to reverse and straighten up.

Honestly, it looks easier for them to park straight when your car is not there because they can drive into their spot at a slight angle and then straighten up, vs driving tightly round the fence and trying to go straight into their space.

Paint lines to make it very clear they are not on their own bit of the drive.

I would tell WGN that they really need to discuss this with picket fence owner rather than constantly encroaching into your space. Knock and get them to move every time so it becomes a pain for them.

I definitely would not get involved with speaking to picket fence owner about deeds/rights of way etc etc. Don't get involved in a potentially tense situation when there's no need for you to do so.

Yikes... You could add to the problem by making your own little fence to mark out your parking space but I suspect that they are not parking space but access rights to the garages.. though you do say that the parking space is marked on your deeds and the driveway is shared. Is there anything in the deeds that prevents you from putting up a fence? If there is, it is probably also in the bungalow owners deeds, if there isn't, that is one way to guarantee your space and to stir the hornets nest..

it is the bungalow owner's fence that is causing a problem...

This is not difficult for the white garage at all (imo).

How can you tell without knowing the actual size of the space and van? I'm guessing the diagram isn't to scale...

Do you all have access over that patch even though it's not part of the drive?

Difficult to be accurate on such a tiny scale - but any way to see if they have encroached a bit more than they should have done - even if they own a little sliver, it doesn't necessarily follow that they fenced in the absolute correct little sliver! Unfortuantely I think that these days they often say that maps have a margin of error of 15 cm or more - not a massive deal when you are buying a big field or house - massive difference when those 15cm which turn into 30cm make the difference between being able to park a car or not...

Put your own picket fence around your space.

Have you double checked that you are permitted to park there? It's not unusual to see it excluded and only "for use to travel over".

My Mil has shared driveway with one neighbour. Old neighbours never had a problem with but when new neighbours moved in they had van and car and took up too much space parking, often over two thirds of driveway. My FiL asked neighbour to move several times as if he had parked carefully three vehicles would just about fit. Eventually FiL lost his rag and one day he measured up driveway and painted a white line down halfway. Neighbour just ignored and still parked over it. FiL who is bloody stubborn had a builder build a small wall within his half. Nothing neighbour could do but they had huge row over it.

If the neighbour with the parking problem has a right of way over land that includes the fence they should be able to get the fence removed as it represents a substantial interference with their right of way. But I agree- it's not your problem and it's for them to sort out.

From your diagram & explanation, I would be very surprised if bungalow owners have the right to build that fence just there.

They may well own the land, but if white garage neighbour has access rights to his garage, then they have to respect that & cannot go blocking it - even partly - with little passive aggressive fences.

It is a good question whether any of you are actually permitted to park on the land though? As opposed to just having shared access to your garages? Are they actually spaces at all? You say they are not marked out as I would expect them to be.

I would worry that if you confront picket fence neighbour about legal rights of access etc they would start looking into whether you actually have the right to park in front of the garages etc and it could all get very confrontational.

Suggesting to WGN that they pop round with a bottle of wine, explain the issue and ask if there is any way other neighbours would consider moving the fence if WGN solemnly promises not to park in front of their door would be my approach in the first instance.