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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel angry with my tenants and the lettings agent...

21 replies

WorriedLandlord · 14/02/2019 15:07

Partly posting here for traffic.

I found out today the lettings agents have let this complete mess to happen at my property. I'm not a big, rich landlord, I only rent out this one property (I used to live in it before and it didn't make sense to sell at the time but I really do need the rent every month).

Current tenants are meant to be a woman and a man, apparently niece and uncle. All seemed ok, rent was being paid on time etc. Tenancy is coming up for renewal and the agent told me one of the tenants was moving out and another relative of the woman was moving in to take his place. All seemed ok until this week, they have found out the original man moved out months ago, and the woman has been abroad for a few months. The other relative who was meant to be moving in next month to take up half the tenancy has already been living there for about 6 months and moved in his partner and children as well!! He is not on the tenancy agreement at all. Although apparently he has been the point of contact with the lettings agents all along as the others don't speak English very well?!

The original woman tenant who is currently abroad is planning to come back a few days before the currently tenancy ends and bring with her 3 children as well. She is not working now and is planning to claim housing benefit.

The agent thinks the woman doesn't currently have keys to the property (the man living there has them) but they will have to give her keys to gain access again! They said she has been getting very shirty with them over emails when they have been asking about all this.

So suddenly my two bed flat is going to have two families and who knows how many children living in it, with one tenant not working so likely not paying either (as they also found out the man is currently paying her share of the rent while she is abroad).

I'm serving Section 21 notice and getting legal advice but I'm worried they will all refuse to move out for ages and I will have to go through the whole legal process. I know the courts don't like to evict anyone with children anyway if they have nowhere else to go (which is fair enough but also they can't just keep living in my flat!).

My mortgage and landlord insurance T&C's both say no subletting so I'm going to be in breach of them as well for no fault of my own. I will also struggle financially if I don't get the rent paid.

I can't believe the agents are just going to give her keys again to move in just a few days before her tenancy ends... People always complain about tenants having a hard time but FFS! I've always been a good landlord, sorted out repairs quickly and it's a nice flat (it was newly decorated for these tenants). I would love to have good tenants who want to stay for a few years but so far every set of tenants has caused problems or wanted to quit early because their situation changed.

OP posts:

Megan2018 · 14/02/2019 15:13

This is why I no longer use an agent and I let it out myself - I found the agents checks lacking and I am much more thorough myself!

It is actually quite easy to do - I use Open rent to advertise and then I am pretty brutal with my referencing and affordability checks.

The last agent I used managed to let my house to a man using a fake name who faked his employer references. 10 mins on google told me that, yet they claimed to vet people properly. Arses.

Good luck with your eviction - don't give the tenants an ounce of sympathy - get them out using the high court if necessary to speed it all up.

Brightburn · 14/02/2019 15:13

I would triple check the tenants deposit has been properly protected if I were you. If not; you won't be able serve a section 21 eviction...

BarbarianMum · 14/02/2019 15:18

This is the shitty side of being a landlord Im afraid. All you can do is issue a s21 and go through the legal process for the leasee - not sure what the process is for anyone living there illegally. Ask a solicitor.

The agents cant refuse keys to the leaseholder but why have they been corresponding with someone who's not on the lease?

Ultimately being a landlord is a business. You have to take the rough w the smooth. And if every set of tenants are causing you problems ask yourself why? Is the letting agent not very selective when it comes to letting, or is the flat in a dodgy area that cant attract a decent tenant? Quitting early is always a problem if you rent to people in insecure employment, you just have to build it in to your business model.

lastqueenofscotland · 14/02/2019 15:26

That’s crap of them and also illegal if they don’t know who’s there and therefore won’t have carried out right to rent checks.

Original poster

WorriedLandlord · 14/02/2019 15:29

They said they have been corresponding with this man because he always presented himself as just a friend helping with communication as his English is great and the others' isn't. So even if they emailed the other tenants, this guy would respond or call them to arrange timings for repairs or the recent inspection etc. I can't believe they never wondered about it though...

As for why the tenants are sharers, the agents have said before it's because of the size of the property being too big for a single person or a couple. It's in a nice area in London zone 2, near a station, nice top floor flat in a converted Victorian house. I lived there by myself in the past, and I know the previous owner lived there on his own and then rented it out to a couple for a few years... but maybe times have changed as prices have gone up in the area?

I have two years left of the fixed rate on the mortgage and then I'm planning to sell...

OP posts:

Houseonahill · 14/02/2019 15:34

That's really shit OP I have no advice sorry but I feel for you. Why can't people just be decent human beings

Purpleartichoke · 14/02/2019 15:36

Surely the lease has language about all adults needing to be on the lease and the maximum occupancy of the unit? It shouldn’t be hard to find them in violation and get them out. Sorry you are having to deal with this. Some people are such scammers.

CripsSandwiches · 14/02/2019 15:38

I would be laid back about the tenants changing as long as the property was kept in good condition but I wouldn't be happy with having so many there. The wear and tare will be ridiculous - especially with loads of children. It also might attract complaints from neighbours.

Hadalifeonce · 14/02/2019 15:39

Have you spoken to a solicitor regarding the illegal sub letting? Would this be enough to withhold the keys?

dreamingofsun · 14/02/2019 15:55

doing the section 21 asap is a sound move. make sure every single bit of paperwork and things like gas certificates are in place so they cant use things as excuses when you go to court. check with you solicitor about what written notice you have to give them.

the tenant having children and not having anywhere to go wont make any difference. i think the judge will only allow them to stay in very limited circumstances.

good luck. sounds like you are taking legal advice which is a good idea as its easy to do things wrong which then means it could get thrown out of court.

MaxNormal · 14/02/2019 16:00

Don't worry you will get them kicked out. We evicted a family with five children. Wasn't a quick process though.

Miljah · 14/02/2019 16:01

To be fair, houseonahill- there are those who regard one-rental property landlords as not being 'decent human beings', given that they have used the unearned profit from their own property to snap up another, depriving someone else, usually a first time buyer- of a place to own; and condemning those tenants to, after the initial few months, precisely 60 days security.

The OP has just discovered that sometimes, it's not always the taking-candy-from-a baby they imagine.

GetOffTheTableMabel · 14/02/2019 16:14

To be fair, Miljah, those people would be taking a crass, uninformed view. They wouldn’t know anything about the personal circumstances of said “one-rental property landlords” and would be ascribing motives that they cannot possibly know about. This might, or might not be, because they are wankers. So who cares what they think?

pigsDOfly · 14/02/2019 16:31

One of my tenants who paid no rent for over six months had children but they were still evicted with a court order.

Surely, the no subletting that you mention applies to the tenants rather than to you as you have no control over someone else subletting your property, as happened to me with another tenant.

Agree with pp, section 21 immediately.

Your agent sound awful. Either find a different one or take over the letting yourself.

I have a fantastic agent, he's been absolutely brilliant. When having to deal with bad tenants he dealt with it all. I didn't have to do a thing and his insurance paid me the unpaid rent; although that would also be covered by my own LL insurance.

There are good agents out there.

safariboot · 14/02/2019 16:40

If the tenants are in breach of their tenancy agreement then you can do a Section 8 eviction as well as (or instead of) the S21. The S8 can be quicker.

Trethew · 14/02/2019 16:51

You might get more info if you post this in Legal.

I would be looking carefully at your agreement with the letting agent, specifically whether they have failed to meet their responsibilities

scaryteacher · 14/02/2019 16:59

Miljah To be fair, houseonahill- there are those who regard one-rental property landlords as not being 'decent human beings', given that they have used the unearned profit from their own property to snap up another, depriving someone else, usually a first time buyer- of a place to own; and condemning those tenants to, after the initial few months, precisely 60 days security.

What a crock of shit - they could be like us, posted abroad by HM Forces and renting out our UK property whilst living in, and paying rent on, a married quarter. Furthermore, my house in the UK wouldn't be suitable for your average FTB, being a 4 bed period detached in a small Cornish village.

dreamingofsun · 14/02/2019 17:02

i'm not legal guru. we did a section 21 rather than a section 8 because it cant be challenged and therefore we felt it would be potentially quicker and lower risk. a section 8 is where the tenant is at fault and i think you have a better chance of getting money back. our tenant was supposedly on housing benefit (not that we saw any) and was unemployed so we didnt think we'd get money back anyway.

SiblingDifference · 14/02/2019 17:14

They may be hoping for eviction! If they are after hb. I was asked by two lots of past tenants to issue a S21 as they were struggling and being unintentionally homeless was the only way into council/ HA lists. I know a number of friends who have also followed this route. Very common in London.

Personally I’d breathe for a few weeks, it’ll make little difference, and see what plays out.
Ask the agents to do an inspection.
Also, as is your right get round there if you can and demand every set of keys they ah e for your property!

pigsDOfly · 14/02/2019 19:25

Miljah That's bollocks. As a LL of one property I'm not depriving any first time buyers, or anyone else for that matter, of the chance to buy.

There are plenty of properties available on the market, including those for first time buyers, although I suspect there are not many first time buyers looking for a four bedroom house like the one I own.

Would you prefer to have people living on the streets rather than renting from private LLs.

Miljah · 17/02/2019 18:00

pigsDofly...

It's a chain, isn't it? Your ownership of your 4 bedroom renter reduces the opportunity for a second time, or third time around buyer to buy it, doesn't it? Which pushes up prices, right the way down the chain, to first time buyers.

You didn't buy in isolation.

I recognise there is a place for rental accommodation. But I believe it should be heavily regulated, properly taxed, with a much fairer deal for tenants.

As for 'have a go'LLs. Dh and I have just worked out that of everyone we know with 'a second property', every single one has a 'first time buyer' renter, none are military. Their 'circumstances' were they saw the opportunity of making yet more cash from their already unearned money-box of their existing house, and took it.

I, too, could easily to pay for a second, 3 bedroom house, outright, where I live in Hants.

But I don't because I don't want to find myself writing affronted MN posts about my tenants not being 'decent people' who, surprise surprise, haven't treated my property with the loving care that will uphold the value of my investment.

Flip