To ask if you have a child with adhd and asd what were they like at nursery/preschool?

[Seline]

I have adhd myself and likely asd. Eldest son undergoing assessments but dealing with some difficult behaviour at nursery in particular.

If your child has these what were they like and what helped? Thank you.

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Pop over to the sen boards as you will get a lot of useful advice there.

My son was diagnosed adhd last year aged 7.5. This was after years of fighting to be believed and we and current school still think there is asd present as well, though high functioning.

Ds1 was always a very challenging baby and continued with this as a toddler and into school. Although he is rule bound within school, he comes out and lets it all go!

It is much more extreme than normal toddler/child development behaviour.

mini I posted a thread there but got no response so only posted here out of desperation.

I describe his behaviour as toddler x100. Much more shouting, fighting, tantrumming, defiance. But also very loving and funny and kind. He keeps getting into fights at nursery. They say it's unprovoked but whenever I've seen him display this behaviour there is a reason for it. Not always a sensible one but to him it's logical if you see what I mean. So for example he started a fight to get a toy off of someone which looks unprovoked however he's lining up all the blue toys and the child wouldn't give it to him so in his mind he needed it to complete his set. Not excusing it or saying it's okay to do that. It isn't. But explaining his thinking.

Yeah it all sounds so familiar. We always say ds1 ran at a 10, and if we could turn it down even to 7, he'd be a lot easier to manage. Otherwise he takes up more time than his 3 siblings put together.

Nursery need to be switched on with him, I assume they are helping with the assessment process etc. If they are aware of triggers like needing to line all the blue toys etc up, they need to be close by and monitoring when he starts that kind of activity. So they can step in and prevent lashing out at another child.

Ds1 can lash out when he hits the red mist over something. It can be something as simple as someone sitting in 'his' spot or it can be something as complex as the dinner lady putting baked beans on his plate, which touched his sausage & mash and meant he couldn't eat his dinner! The time it's taken him to brew over the injustice and process it is the 3 hours between school dinner and coming home. We get home, his brother will put the tv on first and kaboom! Ds1 explodes because he can't watch his show first, but that's not actually the issue. He's held it together about dinner all afternoon and let's go when he's safe at home.

In a way it's good that your ds 'acts out' at nursery as it's much more helpful when going for assessment. Ds1 bottles his feelings up until hometime because he wants to comply with the school rules and not get into trouble. But there is the occasional slip at unstructured times.

Can nursery give him a 1:1 for times when there's a pattern to his behaviour?

Like a Labrador puppy on speed. He climbed, he ran, he had no impulse control, no sense of danger, knocked other kids over rushing about and so loud, everything was and.full volume (And.still is lol). He was never angry or malicious just sheer hyperactivity, no impulse control or attention span.

Bloody mental. Found some early videos, a while back, and felt seasick.

He's now a comatose teenager. Simply can't engage him with anything.

I describe DS as a Labrador.

mini he gets some 121 but it's not enough and they're telling me they're running out of options. He needs constant supervision.

The issues he has at nursery don't happen at home as much because I'm able to prevent them before they start, but the staff aren't in enough numbers

I get the red mist you described myself! Sometimes I think DS1 does that as he's good most of the day but by 4pm he goes mental.

He bit me last night because I took something off him when he wouldn't listen. I've found something out though, he doesn't understand what certain words mean. He will say them but his understanding isn't there!

If nursery are saying they are runn8ng out of options, what have they tried?

Have they opened a My Support Plan? Tried any strategies? Looked into funding for extra support? What does the senco suggest? Have they discussed referrals to you or strategies that may help support him?

They've given him 121, and use cards with smiley faces on but that's about it. The senco there has basically said they don't have the funding.

I've asked them to put him in the year below because he's an end of August birthday and with his developmental delay there's a huge gulf between the kids who are four and a half and him. Again they won't as they say it has to go on age.

Does he have speech and language in place to help with strategies to aid understanding?

Do they have finding then for the 1-1....ie is it a dedicated 1-1 or by 1-1 Does it mean that someone in ratio tries to keep an extra eye on him?

Smiley face cards are a bit of a generic exercise that doesn't sound like they are particularly going to work for your ds.

Have they done observations (or ABC charts) to work out the triggers for any challenging behaviours....this may help them know what might help and when.

They should be working out a my Plan with targets on (like IEP targets) for going forward.

Does your ds get DLA? Does he have portage?

He has seen Speech and Language but I've had no more appointments through so I'm planning on contacting them and asking why.

They have funding for 10 hours of 121 but he doesn't get it outside of these hours.

Yeah they don't work that well. I've ordered some ASD communication fans and if they work at home I am planning on buying extra for nursery to use with him

They've done a few observations but they keep telling me his behaviour has no triggers. I know that's untrue because I see him all the time however his triggers aren't noticeable to most people because they're fairly minor to non autistic adults. So for example touching a tower he's built could result in a meltdown but people don't see that. They also don't get that once hes upset he will just kick off at anyone and anything.

He doesn't get DLA or portage yet. Applying for DLA is what I'm planning to do moving forward

Have they applied for SENIF (Special Educational Needs Inclusion Funding)? As areas vary so much it could be called something different, but this is what DS’s preschool applied for to pay for 1:1. It is interim funding, but it helped bridge the gap while assessments were ongoing and we were applying for an EHCP.

Also, have they contacted Early Years Team/specialist teachers for support? Once you are on the ASD pathway here then the specialist teaching team come into preschool to assess, offer advice/put strategies in place and provide training for staff (not a huge amount, but some). This, plus 1:1 is what has made the difference for DS, without it he couldn’t cope at all (meltdowns, lashing out, biting etc due to the anxiety).

I’d double check about moving him to the younger group. It may be a funding issue, due to higher ratios etc, but it should be possible. We deferred DS start to school and he is currently repeating his preschool year, so it doesn’t have to go on age.

I'm not sure what funding they've applied for they get 10 hours of 121 funded.

Again unsure. They speak to the area senco but I don't know who else.

My DS is struggling to cope. They said he was throwing things, pushing people and being disruptive, biting etc.

However I think he has anxiety. I was talking to him yesterday and he suddenly said "don't leave me mummy!". I asked him a few questions and turns out he thought I wasn't coming back when I went into hospital recently. I was in for a long time having my twins and I nearly died and needed transfusions. He did come and see me in hospital but he was frightened by it. I asked him and he said he thought I was living in the hospital and was poorly and not coming back...

Yes, do apply for DLA. Once you have it you can then apply for DAF funding for preschool. It is a one off payment per academic year, around £600 if I remember correctly. It is there so Preschool’s can make reasonable adjustments to the setting/provide extras needed.

I didn't know that, I'll apply once we get DLA. it's upsetting because DS isn't malicious. He does it out of anxiety and frustration but people don't seem to get it!

My best friend described my son as “little Forrest Gump” when he was smaller because he just kept on running no matter what. And he did, all the time. Everywhere. Coupled with the fact he’s nearly 8 and I haven’t slept a full night since before he was born because of his sleep disorder (he was very active in the womb too) its been exhausting taking care of him day to day. I’d been told at his 2 year check up with the HV (where he destroyed the room we were in with his constantly climbing, fiddling and crashing about) that he was probably on the spectrum. Wasn’t a huge shock. He was diagnosed with ASD aged 5 and ADHD aged 7 and the medication for that has really helped him with his impulsive behaviour- something that worries me about him.

Just to point out my little boy is the loveliest, sweetest, most affectionate person I’ve ever met- so many people we know assume his behaviour comes from anger alone but it doesn’t- it’s frustration, loneliness and sadness at being misunderstood. As he’s got older and his understanding and speech have got better the meltdowns have lessened.

My son was also active in the womb! As was his younger sister so I wonder whether she will display similar behaviours. Their brother is the calmest child by comparison lol.

Mine did the same at his 2 year check. We didn't know they did two kids together and when another child came in (It would be a very polite well behaved quiet child as if deliberately chosen to highlight DSs issues) he went crazy and couldn't cope.

I fully expect him to have adhd and asd, I knew with me having it my kids are at a higher risk of it but the lack of understanding from the nursery is annoying me. He managed to cut a child by hitting him with a toy and I'm so confused how that was allowed to get that far! I would never let that happen when I'm watching him because if I see a situation where he's got a hard toy and there's other kids and he's flailing about I distract him and get it off him.

Seems to me like they can't be bothered with him.

If they are not helping him, and you have exclude all other avenues you can report them to ofstead. I would push for an ehcp

Full of enthusiasm for everything, non stop chatting, did not want to sit for craft or snack time, preferred to run around.
Same at playgroup, wanted to run around the hall whilst the others were sat down in the other room at singing time. Very difficult to transition between end of activity and leaving time! Climbing everything constantly but indoor climbimg and bouldering lessons helped.with that!
Always difficult to walk anywhere safely, running ahead etc and over friendly with anyone who would interact.

And due to immaturity I would definitely have deferred entry to reception for a year. He just was not ready

Mine is the same cappuccino he will run onto the road and across car parks, and has no sense of danger. He will take adults by the hand and ask them to play with him on parks!