To try to persuade my mum not nurse her mother at home

[Somethingsosimple]

My grandmother is in her late 90’s and has been unwell in hospital. Before being admitted she was living independently with a lot of contact and help from my mum. She can now be discharged but is much more frail and is now unable to control her bowels. The nurse said that this may improve. My mum has agreed to have her come to stay with her until can get stronger. I’m concerned that if she doesn’t improve she will not go home and will end up living with my mum. I think this is too much for mum to cope with. My grandmother is a wonderful lady but she has become very bossy in her old age and thinks of my mum as her little girl. Aibu?

Yanbu but it's going to be a really difficult time for your Mum. Can you encourage her to use as much additional help as she can access plus help yourself as well? It sounds like your grandma would be better in a home, can you do some research for your Mum and find one?

No, imo, you shouldn't try to persuade her. She's her mother. It's super tough nursing your old, frail, sick parents at home but if this is what she chooses to do, so be it. The best thing you can do is be as supportive as possible.

Could you talk to your mum's GP, maybe with her, about the help available? She should be able to get someone to come in to help with personal care so it doesn't all fall to her.

I can understand your mum wanting to do this and also your reservations. I think you might have to let your mum carry on as planned and be ready to help make a new plan if your grandmother deteriorates further or can't return to her own home.

Yanbu to feel how you do & in your position I would feel the same. However, I don't think you should try & persuade your Mum out of it. You can tell her your worries in a factual way but ultimately it's her decision to make.

I've been in your mum's shoes and frankly it's not your business. What you should be doing is everything you can to support your mum and make it easier for her, not add to the stress of the situation. In all honesty it's much easier to care for someone when they live in the same house than traveling back and forth.

YANBU on paper but the reality is that when the time comes and our parents need us we do mostly feel the need to look after them. I second the advice to ensure your dm has as much help as can be provided by the discharge team, including any equipment that might help.

If she’s on call 24/7 your dm will become exhausted quickly and your DGM may need to be admitted to a residential home but she may, of course actually recover enough to go home.

Offer as much support as you can and offer to visit care homes locally etc to be a practical support. It’s not easy and more of us are facing these challenges as people live longer and longer.

I'm old enough to be in your mum's position - and I'd say that if she wants to care for her mother, there is no way that you'll convince her otherwise.

Hopefully your mum will access home help to assist her - the hospital should put this in place before your grandmother goes home.

I'm skeptical of the nurse's assertion that the bowel incontinence will improve - in a 90+ aged person that is a very optimistic idea. To be honest, I'd guess that once your mother realises how much work this will entail, she might well change her mind and look into a nursing home .

Thanks so much for replies. My mum has sort of persuaded to look after her mum as both her brothers think it would be a good idea and also my grandmother asked my mum. My mum just can’t say no.

I think it’s lovely that you are concerned about the impact on your mum. And I do sympathise - it’s likely my mother will move in with us in the not-too-distant future and while it feels like the right thing to do, I do know it’s going to be very difficult at times (my DM, like your DGM is a very strong character...) But as another poster has said, it’s often harder rushing to and fro to look after someone than it is to have them at home so your DM might just be the most practical option. My advice would be to make sure she’s thought it through, and to continue to be there to listen and support her. If your DGM deteriorates, she may need to rethink whether she is able to offer the necessary care

YANBU but you don’t have a hope of convincing her otherwise. Is there even any money to put your Grandmother into a nice care home, that might be what your mother is worrying about? Just make sure she has all the support she needs, respite care and a and appropriate care package to assist her. Older people don’t always know they can ask for help or where to get it from, help with all of that.

Ah, I just crossposted with you. It sounds as if she is being slightly pushed into this by her brothers, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. And I’m afraid I my experience is that daughters disproportionately carry the burden of looking after elderly relatives. Could the brothers not share care with your DM? Agree a time-frame so that if she isn’t able to move home by x date, she stays with another sibling for a while to give your mum a break?

It's up to your mum at the end of day, but are the hospital doing the classic of just trying to get rid of your DGM with no care package in place? because it sounds like your mum is going to need some daily support if this is going to work in the longer term. Unfortunately they will say pretty much anything to get rid of elderly patients, once they're gone from the hospital it's not their concern.

It sounds very difficult. I think you should suggest your Mum contacts age uk and a carers charity. I would phrase concerns about your Mum not taking on too much and ask her to keep reviewing if it’s in the best interests of her and your Grandmother.

I think it's lovely that your Mum is willing to care for her Mum. Why do you think it's too much for your Mum to cope with?

My Mum did similar; it gave my Nan the dignity of dying in her own bed, rather than being stuck in a hospital or home being cared for by strangers.

Maybe try and support your Mum a bit more in her decision? There will be community nurses available to help her too. And your Mum's brothers need to do their bit too, rather than expecting her to do it all. This is when families should pull together.

Pushed into it by her brothers? What help are they going to offer?

If your mum really doesn’t want to and is being pressurised by her own mum and her family then support her to say no, and if she can’t bring herself to say no then support her when it happens. Maybe she can say yes as long as it’s only for a month or another definite time limit? And definitely get carers in to help as it will be a huge burden - help your mum talk to social services. Your gran should be getting attendance allowance which should be used for paid care too. Also ask for a carers assessment for your mum (will help your mum get support as a carer).

Your poor mum, hmm I bet it suits her brothers. Maybe you could suggest that since in theory this is only temporary, each child (your DM and your DUncles) have your DGM for a couple of weeks each. If she is then still incapable of looking after herself (quite likely) EVERYONE will have to look into nursing homes. I think the important thing is to have a deadline or your DM will end up taking on full care for goodness knows how long and presumably she is not young herself.

If your dgm is in her late 90s, your DM must be in her 60s or even 70s? Possibly too old to take this on anyway. She could ruin her own health.

Indeed, I bet it does suit the brothers 🙄

My DM looked after DGM for 10 years at home and we believe it seriously impacted her own health and MH (even with carers coming in 3 times a day to help with changing DGrans pads etc). IMO at that age continence is unlikely to improve as frailty increases, as they just cant to the loo or commode fast enough.
Realistically your uncles need to step up and help your and gran out on a practical level. Or they need to start making plans for nursing home care. My DM is in a lovely one herself now and she loves the company and the staff.

Where will your grandmother sleep ? is it upstairs or downstairs , can she manage a full flight of stairs if upstairs before she leaves hospital ?
If downstairs is there a toilet and shower that are easily accessible, will she need any equipment /adaptations such as handrails or a raised toilet seat or a commode to use over night ?
If she is incontinent , who is going to supply pads , remember pads are designed for urinary incontinence not faecal, you need your DM to ask how she can manage this at home before she is discharged, a shrug and 'it may improve' doesn't really cut it.

Has anyone done a home visit to assess if there is any equipment needed etc ? What about a social services assessment for funding of care if your mother is going to be a full time carer. What about respite care in the future ?

24 hours a day care 365 days a year is hard work. When and how will she get a break ? Will it be safe to leave your grandmother at home alone for any period of time so your mother she can go to the shops etc , is she at risk of falling if left alone ?

I am sorry to ask this , but is it possible that your grandmother has a palliative diagnosis and that is why your Mother is considering caring for her at home ?

YANBU. Your mother must be a good age and it will be very hard. It sounds like she's been doing the lion's share already.
The cynic in me wonders if the brothers don't want their inheritance going on nursing home fees. How much care have they been providing over the years?
Your mother may indeed want to do this out of love and a sense of duty, but would maybe also, given the type of person she is, feel too guilty if she said no.
Help her to get all the assistance she is entitled to. Not sure what else you can do except keep an eye on your mother's own wellbeing.

I think you need to stay out of it and respect your DM opinion.

I would worry that, realistically, your mum may not be able to provide your grandmother the level of care she will need. However 'lovely' it might seem to be cared for at home by relatives, in practice, it can mean a lot of suffering all round. I'd be really cautious about this, especially if her brothers are pushing her.

FWIW, both my mother and my MIL cared for mothers/mothers-in-law at home. My mum coped but it was extremely hard, and only lasted a few months in the end. My MIL did it for years and ended up with a lot of related health problems. She got a hernia (probably from lifting in the wrong way/too often) and has damaged her back badly. It's not trivial, looking after someone that age.

My mother cared for my elderly father during the last months of his life.

If your mother is quite well on in years how is she going to cope doing the additional laundry and with supporting your mother with personal care. It can be - quite literally - back-breaking work. The very old can be mentally and physically frail, yet live for many years with ever-increasing care needs.

My personal opinion is that there is some very good care provision for older people. My father-in-law flourished in sheltered accommodation and then in a care home. They are less socially isolated and there are qualified staff who can act quickly when new health problem arise. Meanwhile relatives can concentrate on spending quality time with family members.

There are, of course, financial impliications. But a stay in hospital provides an opportunity to talk to professionals about longer term care needs. It's not a good idea to have people discharged until there is a genuinely manageable plan in place.