To think the teachers must hate me! Aibu to refuse detention in these circumstances...

[Viperseverywhere]

DD has additional needs and is classed as 'vulnerable' according to her own Senco and safeguarding.
We have an arrangement with the above as a result that she isn't to stay after school but is to be kept at lunch. All staff know this. It's a small school. Many don't take notice.

One of the reasons is that she already doesn't get home until 6pm as it's two buses and they finish later than normal schools and it's two buses (we live in a village) so if she misses her connecting bus she has to wait 50 minutes at a stop in the dark.
She also has toileting issues.
The other reason is she has been let go early daily as she has been being bullied.

She has completed a large chunk of a huge booklet (bare in mind she has a reader in exams and struggles greatly academically) but teacher has stated the pages she has done is not enough.

Just had a phone call that she is to have after school detention because she hasn't done enough.
WIBU to tell them no? Senco isn't in so there was confusion.
I will make her do the work of course!

I think you would be entirely reasonable to phone the school and remind them of your agreement regarding detentions being at lunchtime rather than after school, and exactly why it is in place. It is perfectly reasonable to say that she cannot stay after school if it would render her journey home unsafe. Standing at a bus stop for the best part of an hour is unsafe for her, especially given her special needs and after dark.

She can do the detention at lunchtime if it is really necessary, although given everything you have said - SENCO absent, her current struggles, her need for a reader, the fact that there is confusion over where she is supposed to be up to in the huge tome booklet I think it might also be fair to question whether or not there is any sound basis for the punishment at all. Clarify what point she is supposed to have reached and say that you will go through it with her at home.

It all sounds as though communication within the school has been rather disjointed.

So the teacher hasn't done any differentiation for your daughter and is giving her detention cause she hasn't done enough work. You really need to contact the senco as soon as you can, the teacher needs to be reminded of your dd's needs and capabilities.

Have they not applied for extra time alongside the reader? If not ask why.
Who was reading the text for her during this assignment? Exam arrangements should be based on the student's usual way of working in the classroom.

As a teacher I think it’s not a good reason to set a detention and I agree with the posters saying to refuse the detention and to speak to the SENCO and/or head of year. It would seem to me that the teacher in question has no understanding of SEN or of differentiation more generally; it’s archaic teaching practice to just give a booklet out and tell kids to work up to a set page. If it’s coursework etc. then setting a target for amount completed and saying it will be homework if not done in this week’s lessons is far more reasonable than a detention. I’m sorry but the teacher sounds awfully mean.

Yep she's got extra time and a reader too for exams. She's meant to have information broken down too as per her learning plan.
She gets no reader or extra time in his class. A lot of the work he does if information sheets, booklets or info pinned on the wall they have to find and read themselves which I've been told is common for upper secondary.

He said that she hasn't said she is struggling hence the punishment in line with school policy. I know for a fact she has to Senco and I raised myself twice in December that she was.
The booklet in question is a 40 page exam style question booklet which she receives no assistance with. DD has brought the book home.

@Viperseverywhere if it’s exam style questions she should be given extra time and a reader in order for it to be comparable to the real exam. This isn’t always possible in class (i’ve taught classes where 8/9 pupils had readers and scribes and I’ve had to just get me and the TA present to spend some time helping each pupil, though this obviously isn’t as good as it would be in the exam). The teacher should accommodate for the lack of in class support and extra time and expect your daughter to complete less of the booklet than other students. I also think the teacher probably ought to try to help her by reading some of the questions to her, though if the class is otherwise difficult to manage this might not be possible.

Thank you surprisedmom
Often we get booklets like these sent home too . One was based on a topic they apparently won't have time to cover in class.
So 40 pages of a subject that's not even been covered sometimes and she doesn't even know where to start :(

I’m so sorry OP. I’ve onlg just seen your answer. That’s rubbish. I was hoping the teacher was actually offering their time to help a student who was struggling. Clearly not.
I would contact school. Your child doesn’t know what they should be doing and is clearly really struggling with the tasks set. This is surely going to harm her confidence and likely increase anxiety. I’m sorry.
Would be sensible to set a smaller amount of work (as a reader and extra time aren’t a possibility at home!)
Detentions can’t be after school.
Clearly more support is needed. Not punishment. Poor kid.

It doesn't sound like a great school to be honest. Even without the complete disregard for your DD's SEN most schools I've worked at would set after school detentions as a sanction for repeated poor behaviour not one instance of completing less than the required work. The booklet thing would be unacceptable in every school i have ever worked at, we would at least have been required to differentiate a task like that by outcome ( as a bare minimum) in which case with your daughters requirement for extra time she would surely have been expected to complete less than others. As for setting an entire topic for them to learn at home because we don't have time in class, wtf?!?

Thanks guys. I've spoken to the teacher, she's got detention at lunch.
He's still insisting she hasn't asked for help even though I've got it in writing about telling him personally twice in December. She's also spoken to the Senco because he was providing no attempt to differentiate for her at all. In fact DD told Senco she was learning nothing in his class because she couldn't access his class properly less than a month ago.

Apparently he told her Friday that she hasn't done enough and was to do more . DD was sent home ill before his lesson the Friday before and left lesson early last week due to an issue in school with a bully so I'm wondering if she actually had left the class when he told them it had to be in for Monday and done at home.

She had done 11 pages of the booklet and was meant to do 12. She had missed a couple of questions she had not understood.
She sat and did the whole workbook of the topic they have to learn all kat entirely at home last night as well as what she hadn't done and has give him the whole thing.

She was on target for a six with her old history teacher who left when she was in year 10. She loved history, she always has. Now she hates it and is on target for a 2.
I give up tbh.

YANBU.

Perfectly sensible to insist on lunchtime detention, and to ask for a chat with the school as to why the agreement is being ignored.

If you have records that she needs extra help and has told of her concerns re his class then I would take this further.

It sounds rather like bullying to be honest - if school know she needs a reader and other special measures in place and this teacher is refusing to acknowledge that then IMO he is withholding education from her.

Why on earth is your poor DD being given detentions at all?

She's not badly behaved.

She's trying to do the work.

She has SEN and safeguarding issues, an IEP and daily contact with the SENCO. She's being bullied already. It sounds like she's doing bloody well just getting through the school day. Issuing her with a detention for allegedly incomplete work seems like a huge overreaction at best, and cruel and bullying behaviour by the teacher at worst.

Based on your updates OP, I wouldn't even be supporting lunchtime detentions for your DD in this instance, and I'd be asking for a meeting with the Head, the SENCO and the teacher concerned to get to the bottom of why he is treating your daughter so horribly.

Giving out detentions for missed work in this sort of situation is just cruel. (And it doesn't sound like she even missed the work anyway).

DD has messaged to say Senco has overruled the detention. Particularly as she's done to the end of the booklet last night well ahead of where she should be.
The teacher doesn't seem too happy about this and is mumbling about school policies.

I've spoken to this teacher before. Particularly when my DD started to fall behind so dramatically in his class when he took over . He's not the type to change or accept any responsibility for any student unhappiness or drop in achievement.
He couldn't explain why DD had been working at a great level in primary and another secondary and then with a previous teacher at that secondary until he came.
His argument was that DD was on the same level as she was with X teacher but that was two years ago. She should have surely made progress! Now she's dropped dramatically.

If I'm honest I'm hoping ( well not really because of the kids but) that his GCSE results are really really shit compared to what the previous amazing subject teachers were. He is either clueless on SEN or refuses to accept SEN.

Do you have time/money to be able to encourage her interest in history yourself, utilising online resources or a tutor? The teacher sounds like a dick and it would be great for your DD to get a GCSE that would prove him wrong.

I would formally complain about him. Put it all in writing, about how she's performed in primary, secondary, previous teacher and now him and his attitude and failure to differentiate and teach her at all. Yet he wants to punish her in violation of her statement.

Please formally complain. Demand a response from above.

Have you posted about this before in a previous instance? If so they should have the message loud and clear by now. I’d also be asking why they aren’t making allowances for her additional needs when setting tasks and then punishing her for it.

Is it possible for her to be moved to a different set so different teacher? I would be formally complaining and requesting a meeting with head and secco as several pp have said

No way in hell would my vulnerable child with toileting issues be waiting on the dark for 50 minutes. Wouldn't even entertain the idea of she'd done something awful let alone for not working fast enough.

I would also be arranging a meeting with the school to find out why this teacher hasn't been informed of dd's needs and find out why she's being punished for not working fast enough. It's stuff like thus that leads sen students to have low self esteem

I wouldn't even allow a lunchtime detention tbh.

Detention is a consequence for poor choices of behaviour or wilful misdemeanours that are minor.

Not for students with send who can't even understand what's being asked of them let alone complete it who aren't being supported to be given a chance to achieve.

My own ds has asd. He has transport to school and so I've said no on the day detentions and that he can't access detention as I can't collect him at 4.

He's had a few lunchtime ones (deserved ) but the school policy would have given lunchtime anyway. (Talking/late to lesson etc).
But I won't allow them to give a punishment for something he couldn't have achieved without support if they know through his documented needs he would need support. But school also know if they make a mistake I won't complain (I'll just email to ask what happened!) and will work with them to prevent further problems.

Sounds like you have the same relationship with senco. The senco now needs to force it through her teachers.

Well I utterly give up.
I had two hours last night of I'm done with school, I'm a failure, you can't make me go, I won't go, I hate it, I hate them and I'm done with it all and have just got a text saying she has another fucking detention for not doing Geography homework. I utterly give up.
No detention all year and two in one week
I mean she should be doing her bloody homework. (She is claiming she thought it was due in after half term but still ...) either way she just feels like she is getting a pounding. Her organisation skills are utterly shit. She had a homework book which she or staff are meant to write in with homework for this reason but God knows what happened to that.
I give up. As usual I'm going to have hell tonight.

Poor kid.
The school need to help her. A homework folder. A book in there that (maybe staff or a TA writes) records HW in. TBH for now I would want HW reduced. It MUST be manageable for her.
Can they offer a HW club with support?
This is one case where online HW records are great. Kids don’t have to write it down and parents can keep an eye on it.
Can you talk to tutor or head of year? Ideally HW got up to date over weekend? And then they don’t set a DT all all.
She needs support not sanctions.

She can't stay after school as getting home is a nightmare so homework club isn't possible. She also leaves slightly early due to being threatened by a bully at hometime and because she's so utterly knackered she already leaves early one day a week.

She is in school early though and obviously in lunch time.