Brownies, a waste of time!

[Growuppeople]

My daughter has been with brownies over a year, they have been on one overnight trip. My DD wants to do scouts but she’s so shy around boys. She wants to do camping, building campfires, adventures! Not knitting or art and crafts! I pay nearly £50 for uniforms, £10 for the “new book” and now I have to go bowling with them. I thought they would learn independence, health and safety among other important life skills. Am I wrong in thinking I’m wasting mine and my daughters time, she is learning absolutely nothing, or is she just with a rubbish group? What do all your brownies do?

[BertrandRussell]

Scouta and Guides both had a choice heather to remain single sex or become mixed. Guides opted to remain single sex. Scouts opted to become mixed-largely because of massively falling numbers both of young people and leaders. Scouts could have remained single sex if they had wanted to.

[drspouse]

As a guide (Many years ago) I did rifle shooting, my DD (a guide now) has done rifle shooting and archery...

Shooting targets has always been allowed.
Shooting people, or anything shaped like people, has never been allowed.
Hence no paintball or nerf wars.

[IceRebel]

Fatbutt as far as I know gun / war games have always been prohibited.

"Girlguiding does not allow games where weapons of any form are fired at human- or animal-shaped targets. This activity is prohibited because Girlguiding feels it does not fit with the aims and objectives of guiding. However, paintball guns and laser guns are permitted if fired at other objects, for example, in a coconut shy activity."

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/programme-and-activities/guidance-on-activities/prohibited-activities/

[Viperseverywhere]

I think it massively depends on the leaders.
Mine did rainbows. She did one sleep over in the school hall which cost £40 and the rest of the time she literally drew rainbows and stickers. We joined near the end of rainbows age and she tried brownies thinking it would be better and that was as bad.

She joined beavers instead and did so much with them including spending time on a tank, treks and all kinds.

Even when we moved I found Beavers and cubs tons better.

[MillicentMargaretAmanda]

@fattbutt

We are allowed to take part in target shooting, both with guns and arrows. We are not allowed to shoot either at people, so with nerf guns etc, or at targets shaped like people. As a pp said this is out of respect and solidarity with the many thousands of our members who live in countries where guns and war are a daily reality.

[BertrandRussell]

Target shooting fine. Shooting at each other not fine.

[BertrandRussell]

And before the PC gone mad brigade pile in, the Movement is an Inrernational one. Many young people have had close encounters with war in real life.

[arethereanyleftatall]

Our brownies don't do too much either, but as I don't help much, and as it's so very cheap, I have no right whatsoever to complain about it.

Both my dds started both beavers and rainbows, did a term of each, then had to decide. They both chose rainbows. They like crafts and the female space.

[drspouse]

And those who live in countries where guns are far too readily available despite there not being an active war (US, S. Africa).

[budgiegirl]

you will be putting children in single sex tents

Not necessarily. Scouting allows mixed accommodation if it is deemed necessary, has been risk assessed, and parents are aware and have had the chance to raise concerns. However, ultimately it will be the decision of the risk assessor as to the sleeping arrangements.

In practice, most camps and sleepovers will have separate accommodation. However, there will be occasions when it’s just not practical. One female cub on camp? Probably it’s preferable for her to share a tent with the boys than have a tent in her own. Sleepover in a hut with only one big room? The kids do have to share, regardless of whether they are girls or boys.

As much provision as practically possible should be given with regards to privacy etc, but sometimes an event just couldn’t go ahead if there is an absuloute need for non-mixed accommodation.

[00100001]

@Fatbutt as @icerebel says :)


We do archery and rifle shooting, but that isn't war games :)

[Cakeandmarshmallows]

@Lovingbenidorm sounds like sort of thing I would have done but we sat in the Hut colouring and drawing every week! I left before I got chucked out!

[drspouse]

Scouting allows mixed accommodation if it is deemed necessary, has been risk assessed, and parents are aware and have had the chance to raise concerns
If a boy says they are a girl, the leader thinks they are (because they think children can magically change sex) and therefore doesn't see the need to risk assess or tell the parents - it is perfectly possible for a child to be in a "girl" only tent that has a boy in it.
This is why I say it's up to the leader. Individual leaders can decide this is OK without reference to parents or Commissioners.

[lmusic87]

I volunteered with Brownies for 15 years and it's all down to the leaders on what you do.

If you are keen for your child to do more, volunteer and help!

[BertrandRussell]

“I left before I got chucked out!” You wouldn’t have been.

[BiddyPop]

In our Guide Unit, we had leaders who did all sorts.

We did proper "drill" and worked in patrols.
We learned knots.
We did our cooking, housework and babysitting badges.
We also did our fire safety badge, with a visit to the fire station.
We did our camping badge, and went camping in Icelandic tents with chemical toilets for a week every year.
We entered a cooking competition locally.
We entered a drama competition for Guide Units from the County.
We learned to read maps and to work together as a team.
We had pancakes made by the leader in the Den every year on Pancake Tuesday (our meetings were Tuesdays!).

Now, as a leader of Cubs, (and following the programme successfully run by others):
We do 2 separate hostel trips per year (1 night each) and 1 2-night camping trip in actual tents but on a site where there are flushing toilets available and hot showers.
We work on boatman, camping, backwoods and hiking badges in general - the Cubs are not interested in developing their own "special interest" badges (the old badges with a set programme are gone other than the adventure badges).
Our Cubs have quite an eclectic range of interests, and we have some interesting programme activities (not all are done every year - but most are done at least once for each Cub in their 3 years):
Pet Day (this is an annual one!)
Design-a-thon (learning problem identification, problem solving, teamwork, and then building things using recyclable materials and electronics)
Art Day (a professional artist who is a parent comes in once a year to teach them how to paint)
Geo-caching
Map reading and navigation
Knots and pioneering
How to not cut themselves with their penknives, and how to patch themselves up when they do!
Lots of crafts of all sorts
Taste testing day
Cooking (backwoods and regular - surprisingly popular with boys!)
As a Sea Scout group, we spend a lot of time on (or in!) the water from May to October.
A firm favourite every year is the first session once boating is over - blackberry picking in a local park - after everyone does the picking, leaders stew the berries while Cubs play in the playground, ice cream with blackberry sauce eaten before going home.
Last year, they all learned to sew by making felt stockings to hold a candy cane on their Christmas tree in our Unit's colours - not one for every year but the boys absolutely loved it! And the girls as well.

Both Guides and Scouts have involved campfires and singing and toasting marshmallows.
Both Guides and Scouts have involved sleeping in actual tents - I know our Scout troupes both use chemical toilets in a field scenarios, but lots of Scout troupes nowadays go to serviced sites.
Both Guides and Scouts involve working as a team in patrols, developing leadership skills, problem solving, and also personal development.
Both Guides and Scouts have involved lots of games and fun.

Maybe it is/was the leaders involved in the various groups I've been involved with, but there hasn't really been all that much difference between both (apart from the water elements - but that's because it's Sea Scouts not because it's Scouts).

[HexagonalBattenburg]

DD1 was essentially manoeuvred out of Rainbows. Not formally asked to leave - but the pattern of her behaviour being labelled as one of the troublesome ones and clamped down on when others were allowed to get away with exactly the same stuff (DD1 is no angel - but her behaviour is nothing more than overexuberance and if we were worked WITH I would have happily backed them up and gone to meetings to support it if needed to - but they didn't want to do that) and basically given the message that she really wasn't wanted in the group.

I was really disappointed as I got so much out of an incredibly well-run Guide unit when I was a kid (the now long-since retired leader apparently was reminiscing with my mum recently and told her I was the best Guide they had ever had) - but in our local area apart from the collaborative events with Scouting we seem to be in a bubble of nail art, talent contests, craft activities and decorating biscuits and it really wasn't working out in terms of DD1 particularly.

Managed to get both kids into Beavers and it's just a much better fit for them - DD1's behaviour isn't at all an issue there (I think the fact there are lively boys so she doesn't stand out helps a lot) and for a child that really can be quite anxious and lack confidence - their real emphasis on giving things a try and pushing themselves slightly out of their comfort zone has helped her no end - it is just a better fit for my kids in terms of their personalities and not anything negative on the organisations as a whole (although I think GG UK are twits for the trans- policy thing).

Plus whichever muppet designed the Rainbows and Brownies uniforms with those nice areas of pale coloured t-shirt that seems immune to any stain removal method known to mankind needs to be locked in a room with a set of small girls, paints and felt tips, and the contents of the supermarket stain removal aisle until they see the error of their ways and return to darker colours for the main body of the uniform t-shirts that at least hide the marks! Our Beavers have some specific dark coloured t-shirts that they give the kids when they make their promise to use for anything potentially mucky to save the expensive uniform and I fucking love them for that degree of common sense and practicality!

I just think we've got a bit of a grim patch where things aren't particularly well-run with Guiding around here (and yes I did a stint volunteering for them with the Brownies as well but couldn't manage to get anything changed in the time I tried).

[Aquilla]

Our cubs is full of girls. And are still doing regular campfires!

[BiddyPop]

I meant to add that our Scout Unit when I was growing up never allowed girls, whereas the highly successful Unit that my DF's best friend's DCs were in was mixed at that stage and they all loved it.

Our own Unit has 2 mixed Cub packs. We have 2 "Scout" packs, (covering Scout and Venture ages together), which are both single sex. They do a lot of activities together, so the Scouts all get to do things as a mixed group a lot, but they have been split from when the Girls Sea Scout group "invaded" about 30 years ago and it works well having them split as teens. The Rovers group (18+) is mixed.

[ChairmanMiaow123]

My husband was in The Woodcraft Folk - that’s a mixed group, so they do all sorts of activities.

[PinkOboe]

Lots of children, including girls, enjoy art, craft and baking and this demonisation of those who do as boring, wet and unadventurous is equally as tiresome and damaging as the outdated notion that outdoors is for boys and sitting nicely is for girls.

FWIW our Brownies is excellent, led by the girls and includes a very wide range of activities, outdoorsy and crafty . it's also the cheapest activity our children do by a wide margin, and how you manged to send £50 in a uniform is baffling. why don't you get involved by running a second hand uniform service for your group?

[drspouse]

*Hexagonal" if your Rainbow top isn't stained, you aren't doing Rainbows right - our parents will buy second hand tops if they are cheap enough no matter how stained!

Biddy the rules have changed now and it used to be that there were mixed, and boy only, troops - but now they all have to be potentially mixed.

[HumberElla]

My DD joined beaver scouts for the same reasons. She loves craft but is mad about wildlife, being outdoors and exploring. Sadly rainbows and brownies didn’t do many activities to suit her. There are a growing number of girls in her beaver pack and they do loads. Tracking each other in teams by torchlight out on the local fields has been popular this winter!

[tomhazard]

My DD is in rainbows and it's a massive pile of nothing! She loves it so I send her along as it's cheap and she has fun but all they do is draw pictures and decorate biscuits with pink icing.
I feel she might benefit more from a more varied programme including outdoor adventures but it's not a great pack!

[BiddyPop]

drspouse I didn't know that. The Scouts are definitely a girls only troupe and a boys only troupe in my Group. I wonder if no one has ever challenged them on it, as there are both boys and girls catered for within the Group, and they do joint activities so it's not exclusively "boys only" and "girls only".