If you can't drive faster than 35mph....

[DeRigueurMortis]

So indulge me with a rant....

My drive to work involves a 10 mile section on what you might describe as country roads.

The national speed limit applies.

There are a couple of sections that are winding but the corners are not severe - for example you could safely drive the whole section at 55mph (inc cornering) and 60mph in the straights (in good conditions - in the dark/rain/snow you would obviously not be unreasonable to adjust your speed as required to be safe).

I appreciate that someone who doesn't know the road might want to adopt a slower pace and wouldn't think that going 45-50mph corners/straights was unreasonably slow.

However there is a man who regularly seems to be on the same schedule as me that that insists on driving the whole section at no more than 40mph slowing to 35mph for long stretches. He obviously knows the road having done the journey many times and his speed (or lack of) is not impacted by driving conditions.

Cars regularly bunch up behind him (I'm talking queues of 10/15 other road users) as opportunities for safely overtaking are limited
(and I've seen quite a few dodgy overtaking manoeuvres done in sheer frustration I would assume - which I don't condone).

I can't help feeling that if you're incapable of driving at an appropriate speed you shouldn't be on the road at all.

This man works in a building near to my office (I've seen the car parked there) and I'm getting to the point of wanting to walk over and speak to him if I see him getting in/out of his car to have a strong but polite word.

Realistically I won't because I'm not sure there's anything I can say to make him a better driver.

However I don't think I'm U for thinking of you can't drive at a reasonable speed you shouldn't be in charge of a vehicle at all.

Can anybody tell me how it makes me a bad driver if I go out in my car tomorrow and choose to drive at 35-40mph on a 60 road, just because I'm enjoying the scenery and in no hurry?

I think that wins the thread for the daftest rebuttal to my OP.

I've already made clear in my OP I don't expect people to drive at the speed limit, just at an acceptable speed suited to the conditions.

The admiring the scenery is terrible example for blatantly obvious reasons besides which the whole point I was making is that 35/40mph (in good conditions) in 60 mph limit regardless of the reasons is unacceptably slow (unless you're driving a tractor though I've actually seen those fast trac JCB tractors that go up to about 45mph get stuck behind this dude).

Whatever the motivation driving so slowly that you are causing 10/15 car tailbacks is irresponsible and selfish.

Just add wrt overtaking, in this situation even if oncoming traffic wasn't an issue this driver creates tailbacks that mean there's simply not enough safe overtaking places for everyone he's holding up to get past.

I think that wins the thread for the daftest rebuttal to my OP.

I wasn't attempt to rebut your OP. I was asking a question based on the numerous posters who stated that driving at 35-40mph was extremely dangerous.

Whatever the motivation driving so slowly that you are causing 10/15 car tailbacks is irresponsible and selfish.

I never said it wasn't irresponsible or selfish. I said it isn't dangerous.

I'm calling you stupid because you are happy to endanger lives. I can't actually think of another word for someone like that.

Aside from the fact that I didn't ever claim to have done it (I think it's quite obvious my initial post was hypothetical), if I'm driving slowly out of choice and paying due attention to the road, how would I be endangering lives?? That was my question in the first place! God, it's like banging your head against a brick wall. People will be asking me what colour the car is next.

You've been told numerous times. If you're not getting it, how is that our fault? Do you want us to draw pictures for you? I'm at a loss on how everyone else gets it but you don't.

I would be dead if I had followed your advice OP. I was on a road that I only drive on 3 or 4 times a year which, despite having sudden bends, steep inclines, and unbroken white centre lines was a 60 limit. I didn't know the road well enough to anticipate any of this and was driving as fast as I thought safe in the circumstances, the idiot driver behind me clearly knew the road and was getting frustrated and began driving very close to my bumper. I had moved as far to the left as I could to allow him to over-take if there was a suitable straight stretch with good vision when we encountered a sharp bend with a large articulated lorry heading towards me. Not only that, another (uninsured) car was overtaking the lorry at high speed, on the bend and was on my side of the road with nowhere to go.

Had I been travelling at 60 the combined force of the impact would certainly have been fatal. As it was my car was totalled, and I was hit not only by the overtaking car, but the car behind me as he was too close to stop.

That section of road has since been widened and straightened and the speed-limit lowered. The Geest banana depot has gone (so no more enormous lorries) and it's therefore a much safer journey.

I think a good, safe driver will travel as fast as is safe in the circumstances but that shouldn't always be at 60 just because that's the upper limit.

Literally zero reasons have been given for how driving slowly is inherently dangerous. Yours was "you aren't paying attention to the queue behind you" which is totally meaningless. Of course you can drive slowly and see the queue behind you.

I would approach him ASAP. I'd be a few minutes late for work, by following him to his work and approaching him there.

Drives me nutty slow drivers. They are actually a risk, because they can actually cause an accident.

There have been multiple posts on the thread as to why driving that slowly is not only dangerous but also contrary to the standards that your are expected to observe when taking a driving test.

Not making good progress or being unduly hésitent is grounds for failing.

As such why would you think driving in a manner that would cause someone to fail a driving test means they are safe behind the wheel?

The reality as to why people do it is because they lack the requisite confidence and driving ability and thus are fundamentally unsafe.

The argument that a "good" driver could choose to do this is also flawed as by definition choosing to drive selfishly and irresponsibly when you have no need to means that person is not a "good" driver.

Drives me nutty slow drivers. They are actually a risk, because they can actually cause an accident

How?

Its not slow drivers who cause accidents, it's impatient drivers who can't cope with a few minutes delay who cause them.

OP, you just typed a lot without really giving me a reason for why it's dangerous. If it's so clearly dangerous, why is it so difficult for you to tell me how?

Separate dangerous from selfish and discourteous, because they are obviously not the same thing. That negates the driving test argument since I would assume they would fail you for driving too slowly because either it is selfish/discourteous to other road users or because they believe it portrays a lack of confidence.

Let me try to rephrase the question, since it appears I didn't word it very well in the first place:

I am a perfectly capable driver. Generally I drive around the speed limit whenever safe to do so. But if I were to get in my car tomorrow and drive along a single carriageway country road at 35mph, just because I want to, would my driving be dangerous to others? Can anyone tell me how, without listing how OTHER drivers may act dangerously due to their own impatience?

Is that so difficult to answer?

Nuno - does it really need to be spelled out to you?

A very slow driver frustrates the drivers behind and may provoke less than safe overtaking moves. Yes, it's ultimately the fault of the person overtaking, but the situation has been caused by the slow driver.

Gerda I agree with you.

If you look at my OP I'm not suggesting that people should drive at the speed limit at all.

Whilst in appropriate conditions I am happy to drive this road at 55/60mph I have no issue whatsoever with those driving it at 45/50 mph as I said in my opening post. It's a perfectly reasonable speed, even if personally I'd be going faster.

What I object to is the 35/45 mph which I feel is unreadably slow.

I appreciate your having to take my word for it, but this isn't a dangerous or tricky road to drive.

It's not narrow , the corners are gentle with no adverse cambers, it's flat so no issue with visibility in that regard.

Sorry to hear about your accident, must have been awful

Nuno - does it really need to be spelled out to you?

A very slow driver frustrates the drivers behind and may provoke less than safe overtaking moves. Yes, it's ultimately the fault of the person overtaking, but the situation has been caused by the slow driver

I've said in almost every post that I'm looking for reasons that do not include the dangerous actions taken by OTHERS due to their own faults.

On any other section of this forum that would be called victim blaming or something.

There is also a circle of hell reserved for people who cannot drive in the dark and jump on their brake whenever a vehicle comes the other way, on a wide national speed limit road.

There is also a circle of hell reserved for people who cannot drive in the dark without their headlights on full beam (especially in taller cars) and dazzle you to the extent that you cannot see the bendy country road and are forced to brake almost to a stop when a driver like that comes in the opposite direction.

Nuno, not everything is black and white. The slow driver, while not legally at fault, is a major contributor to the accident. I'm not defending people who make dangerous overtakes but the overtakes wouldn't be happening if the driver would just progress at a reasonable speed. Road users should be mitigating risks in so far as possible in order to avoid causing accidents.

Can anybody tell me how it makes me a bad driver if I go out in my car tomorrow and choose to drive at 35-40mph on a 60 road, just because I'm enjoying the scenery and in no hurry? WITHOUT listing dangerous things that OTHER drivers may do as a result of their own impatience/inflated sense of self-importance?

It makes you a bad driver because you are not the only car on the road and you should keep up with the flow of traffic.

From what I’ve experienced on the A446 to work the ones that drive at 45mph on a 60mph road also seem to:

• hit the brakes when they approach a speed camera despite the fact that they are 15mph under the limit already

• hit the brakes when they approach a corner - often just any corner, not necessarily one that requires it

• hit the brakes when they see a car or a lorry waiting on a side road to pull out. Again, for no reason - they’re just waiting until the road is clear

• more often than not, don’t use their lights in that dull, grey morning light we get quite a lot of.

The thing about people driving at 45mph in a 60 is that they are unpredictable because their actions are unnecessary. They don’t need to brake at some of the above and yet they still do, which to a driver used to doing the speed limit is just madness and requires more concentration, decision making and patience than driving safely at 60.

Nuno I've already answered your question in my second previous post.

If that isn't to your satisfaction then so be it, but I fail to see why you can't grasp that driving in a manner that is selfish and irresponsible demonstrates a level of driving competency that is of itself fundamentally unsafe.

Nuno you are correct, there is nothing inherently dangerous in driving slowly, the danger is in others driving dangerously in response.

You know this of course, but I'm posting in support of you due to the worryingly high numbers of people on this thread incapable of understanding this.

there are often people merrily driving along at 30 or 40 kmh. If they cannot drive on this road faster than that, they shouldn't be driving at all

What if they just don’t want to? I get that there are dangers but it is, at the same time, a speed limit and not some kind of order. I know the sort of road OP is talking about and would not be happy to drive at the limit but I am not a bad driver and I manage perfectly well on all roads and in all conditions as a general rule.

I think people on this thread seem to have trouble understanding the difference between dangerous and selfish/thoughtless/inconsiderate.