AIBU -fine for picking child up late

[Arnoldthecat]

This is not me,its just a true story that was related to me and i wondered if anyone had similar experiences.

A friend has a child at the local montessori and picks him up at 1300 so only on a morning stay. She states quite adamantly that she was 2 minutes late picking him up recently and was charged an extra £10. A note on the door states that if your child is booked in for the afternoon only, you cannot bring the child in until exactly 1300. If someone arrived at 1310 could they get a £10 refund ?

One of my former colleagues used a nursery that didn't charge anything for a late pickup, they sent a written warning. After three warnings the contract was terminated and you couldn't bring your DC anymore. Funny that late pick ups were a very rare exception there.

The primary school where I work do this - we run an extended day for children who need to be looked after later due to work commitments etc. If the parents are late then they are fined.

I used to have one really tight day a week where i had 15 minutes from getting Ds out of school and picking up dd over a mile walk away. Other days i had swapped with another parent who had children in the same school and nursery.
Nursery knew, that i had this issue but towards end of dds time there they started to complain if i was a minute late.
I wrote to them saying that they knew situation and could i cancel DDs afternoon session (she was full day at nursery) and have my money back I had paid in advance. I had spent thousands there over the last four years.
Surprisingly they didnt have the courtesy to answer my letter but never complained again.

I was not the first parent they got funny with when they were coming near the end of their child's time there and there were no more children in the pipeline.

My DDs nursery did this. Childminder doesn't but that's probably because it's in the childminders home and there's nowhere to be like a nursery worker would need to.

Bruffin,
Interesting post. Just out of interest, were you really only ever 1 minute late and only ever once per week?

I understand that if you've paid thousands over the years, it might seem a bit petty, but I do think you have to see it from the nursery viewpoint. You may have been a couple of minutes late and others perhaps 5 minutes late. Should they charge the other person and not you? Where exactly do you draw the line? As others say, a minute is a minute to you, but if accepted quickly spirals, if not with you,neither other parents and E are issues to do with enough staff for safeguarding, or shortened lunch breaks or staff being late to get their own children.

I actually think it's better for nurseries not to complain, but to just apply the charge that their terms and conditions specify. Parents have agreed to those and it's all in black and white.

They probably didn't reply to you because they were irritated. That's not a good reason for people running a business, but they probably didn't have much to say. Yes you'd spent thousands over the years, but you were still being late and understandably they weren't pleased about it, esp if a weekly occurrence.

I actually think in your situation, I'd have said I'd probably be 5 mins late each week on that day and asked if there was any possibility of having a set extra small payment arranged, rather than the fine or complaining. This would seem fair all round.

I think the fact she's picks up in the afternoon is confusing the issue. I have to get mine by 6pm. I've never been late and get very stressed if I'm not there by 5.50. But I reckon if it was morning session you'd feel less stressed as the staff will be there anyway but principle is still the same.

I wonder if nurseries ever deduct a tenner from everyone's bill if they open a minute late.

I agree too, that the finishing time is the point that all parents and children should have left the building....that means that BEFORE this, they have gathered the stuff and child and had any chats they need to have with staff. Literally charging up the drive at the point the clock strikes 6 or whatever time it is, doesn't mean the child is gone at 6.

It IS hard for working parents. However, I also think parents need to be realistic in their journey expectations and build in some slack for delays and/or find a nursery that finishes at a time they can actually get to. Parents' difficult journeys and delays really shouldn't become the nurseries' problem....and if they do, financial compensation is only right.

Some lateness is due to people just thinking a few minutes don't matter and not pushing themselves to be on time. Hefty late fees help focus the mind where this is the case. Occasional significant lateness or slight lateness due to a one-off calamity means you just have to accept the financial penalty. And I think frequent lateness either has to face really hefty fees or its right for a nursery to warn that a place can be withdrawn. If a nursery wants to close at 6.30 and arranges its business to those hours, being regularly forced to be there by one parent who can't get there in time is unacceptable. That parent needs to find another nursery with hours that work for them, and to be honest it's not the job of the current nursery to have to accommodate the working patterns of its customers if they don't fit with their business hours. If they'd wanted to offer services until 7pm or 7.30 they would offer them.

I think nurseries know emergencies happen (rarely) and will expect and tolerate very occasional lateness. They absolutely shouldn't have to accept it on a regular basis from the same people.

But say I'm a freelancer earning forty quid an hour. If I build slack into my journey time to avoid being late one time in a hundred, I stop work quarter of an hour early and lose fifty-odd quid a week to avoid paying a penalty twice a year. It doesn't make sense for me as a parent to do that.

Yes it was once a week as arrangement on the other 2 days where i picked up nursery and friend did school pick up.
Thursday was the only day i had to leg it with a five year old over a mile in 15 minutes and i was often in the queue anyway. It was only 6 weeks to go anyway.
They never said anythong after

I knows childminder who charges £5 per minute late.

I was 10 mins late picking up DS from pre school one day due to traffic and got a bill for £15.

I get charged £10 if I pick up late from after school club but you can pick up anytime up until 6. I think its fair enough as they have to vacate the building and staff would like to get home. I've only been late once in 6 years and only by 5 minutes and luckily they waived the fine that time.
Some parents just take the mickey so I don't blame them. They also fine for late payment.

Staff costs have to be covered The nursery/school may have to keep a ratio of staff to children so even 1 min late and they wouldn't know just how late you were going to be, a member of staff could well be asked to stay behind. More obvious if happening at close of day eg 6 pm and parent doesn't turn until 10 -20 mins late Definitely the norm now.

I run an after school club and although this is frustrating as a parent... try to see it from the other way round.
We regularly have parents who are ‘only’ 4/5 mins late, but EVERY day. Now, once or twice is an accident, but every day is not. You could easily say ‘oh it’s only just a bit over the time limit’ but the cut off has to be somewhere!
The rules are there for a reason. Most places like this will have a terms and conditions that will have been signed and they will state collection time - when signing you agree to these.

**AliyyaJann

My DDs nursery did this. Childminder doesn't but that's probably because it's in the childminders home and there's nowhere to be like a nursery worker would need to.

Sorry can I just ask, how do you know a childminder doesn’t have somewhere to be?
I’m a minder for almost 19years. I’ve had some cheeky parents over the years but mostly good. The thing that really gets me is the parents assuming they can be a few mins late cos I’m at home anyway. They have no idea of my life outside childminding. I’ve gotten many a phone call saying “I’ll be a few mins late ok” They don’t ask is it ok for them to be late or does it suit me, they just tell me they’re going to be late. No apology, nothing. They don’t know what I’ve planned so I find it so rude to just assume a few mins late is ok. I don’t mind someone asking but telling me gets my goat!!!!

It's expensive - but all it's not unusual and they have to draw a line somewhere. I once got held up on a train when commuting home from London and had to pay a £25 * 2 fine (for 2 DS). I couldn't do anything about it, but sucked it up. I was far later than 2 mins though.

I spent the first 10 years of my career working in a nursery. The fines are there for a reason. First one being if your late the nursery will probably be over ration meaning a member of staff who was just working the morning will have to stay behind until the late parents arrive. Second and most important reason it’s enforced even if your friend says it was just 2 minutes late is because it alway starts with just 2 minutes. Sorry to sound harsh but I saw it day after day week after week. Cf parents who say it was only 2 or 5 or 10 minutes. If everyone thought they could get away with it can you imagine the predicament the nursery would be in.
Totally understand that sometime it can’t be helped but please have a bit more respect for the low paid staff. The extra member of staff that has to stay behind probably won’t be getting paid for your lateness

It is unfair but life op. My dd goes to an after school club. We were two minutes late one time and charged £5.00. Most days the staff are seen leaving at 5.45 when parents pay till six. It pisses me right off.

As I'm sure others have said late fees are very common and tend to be per 5/10 minutes and are usually eye-wateringly expensive.
If the late fees were cheaper then you run the risk of some parents just factoring them into the weekly cost and thinking 'oh it's ok if I'm late I'll just pay the fee' which is unfair on the staff.
Some childcare providers do run a common sense policy though where if it really and truly is an unavoidable one off they'll waive the fine.

p.s. my childminder does have late fees in her contract. She is extremely active in the local community and is usually ready to run out of the door as soon as the last child is collected.
She's very very rarely charges late fees even though she could because none of the parents are persistently late and she know we are only ever late because of issues out of our control. I the 7 years I've been with her I think we've late twice so I think this is a reasonable policy. I did tell her on the occasions we were late that if she had to fine us we entirely understood and she was well within her rights to do so but she chose not to which we were grateful for.

But say I'm a freelancer earning forty quid an hour. If I build slack into my journey time to avoid being late one time in a hundred, I stop work quarter of an hour early and lose fifty-odd quid a week to avoid paying a penalty twice a year. It doesn't make sense for me as a parent to do that
That is of course your choice to make if you'd rather take the hit of the fines.

Well maybe she will be on time next time!

I know someone who runs a nursery and he has a nightmare with people picking the kids up late.
While you may not think it’s a big deal he has to pay extra to staff to stay late because the kids haven’t been picked up in time.

So if these are the rules then these are the rules.

To the freelancer, I see your argument and okay if it’s twice a year. However if it becomes a regular lateness and one of choice, it’s not just a rational choice but a moral one too - the nursery doesn’t offer an extra 15 mins or whatever as an optional extra for £x. They close at their finishing time and only offer further time for occasional situations. It is their choice when to close and although a freelancer may make more money than the late fine by staying at work a bit late, to choose to do it is a selfish choice and not respecting the low paid nursery workers who are contracted to a certain time but forced to stay late because of your choices. If such lateness was frequent a nursery might threaten removal of a place for regular breach of contract, quite reasonably.

Everyone says ‘it was only 3 minutes or 5 minutes’ or whatever, but the lateness if regular or if with reluctance to pay the fine, is dismissive of the staffs time and lives and shows parents showing they value their own time more highly. It’s not on, especially with low paid nursery staff who’ve usually worked long days and often have their own kids. Respect for them is important and regular lateness doesn’t show that, nor does reluctance to pay late fees for occasional lateness as it assumes the few minutes are not important to them. High paid workers suck up such things, but low paid workers shouldn’t have to.

Of course being late regularly is a shitty thing to do but I'm not going to down tools, lose that income and turn up at the nursery fifteen minutes early 99 times out of a hundred. I'm running a business too. If people are pisstakers then fair enough, but I'd expect some slack if it's a rare occurrence. And it should work both ways - do nurseries offer money back if they open two minutes late?