To say Please Appeal PIP

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If they don't give it to you and you qualify.

They (DWP) mess people around and people give up. It's so easy to do the Appeals form, it is even online now.

www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal

More info here www.gov.uk/government/news/new-online-service-launched-for-pip-appeals

The problem is it takes ages for PIP / MR months even, and they hope people give up. Once you get to Appeals, well with mine they rang and gave it back at that stage. Up till then, it was different.

Even if you can't face going to the appeal you can select a Paper hearing and if you have good paper evidence (and get some support to write a submission) you can do that. It might even be quicker, they sent ours to a court miles away and it was overturned in 4 weeks. But they had serious mistakes and was apparent on paper. But don't give up.

There is a MR writing tool here from CAB if that helps any. You could maybe also mention being manic at time of assessment and unable to give good answers so they should have contacted your doctors instead, perhaps. or asked your family.

www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

Oh, another tip. Send in any ESA report you have, if you get ESA. It is called the ESA85, or ESA85A if you had a paper assessment. You can ask ESA phone line to send you a copy. Same with ESA, if you get PIP.

Yes but once you've been through the whole appeals process (and won) it's often not long before it's reassessed and the whole process starts over again

I had my Tribunal at the start of January, I got awarded PIP and the tribunal, told me they would normally award for 18 months (mental health and doing so much better) but they were aware that DWP were assessing a year in advanced so were giving me two and a half years.

My circumstances were sort of unique, I had been waiting for 18 months in an area where average waiting times are 42 weeks, I had had 2 tribunals cancelled and various other shit hit me during that time as well.

I would always say appeal, but it nearly destroyed myself, my partner and our relationship

Cabininthesnow look at the online guides, they tell you specifically how to challenge what the DWP has said in the F2F assessment.

But question I was asked several times:- how many days have your back been bad in the last 6 months? Umm it’s pain 24/7 the worst pain is when it goes into spasm. Well how many days has that happened? I have no idea as I have not kept a journal. The second question: how many days has your bipolar affected you? Ummm no idea I haven’t kept a journal. I wasn’t aware I should be daly recording all these things, no ones ever mentioned that.

I'm pretty sure the 'journal' idea for how often things affect you is suggested in the notes that accompany the form, but it's over 2 years since I filled that in so I could be mistaken. If not, it's definitely suggested you keep one in all of the online guides, it's so that you can give a more accurate description of your day-to-day conditions and if and how they fluctuate.
The PIP questions for daily living are geared around that, so start keeping a journal now because if you're knocked back at MR, the time it takes to get to Tribunal can be several months and you can submit new evidence up to the Tribunal date ,although it's better to have everything there a good fortnight before that so your papers can be prepared. If you submit a whole load of new evidence the day before, they won't have chance to add it to your evidence bundle and read it before the Tribunal hearing so make sure you submit it in plenty of time.

Don't forget to keep a copy of everything you send to them.

Re your last paragraph, the only reason I advocated for a family member was I knew they couldn't even complete the form correctly, even using the online guides. I wondered constantly throughout the whole process what happened to people like them who could not access other help like say CAB themselves. It's a vile system and has already cost in monetary terms far more than the "fraudulent claims" they allege they are trying to stamp out.
I hate to think what it's cost in human terms, all the people who genuinely need PIP to survive but have no-one to help them. There are no independent 'help' agencies operating any more in my area, if someone doesn't have FB (me) then a lot of the online help and advice is not available. What about people with communication difficulties who don't understand the process but are judged to be able to self-advocate?

It’s a bloody nightmare. I do not know how anyone gets this benefit fraudulently as it’s a bloody nightmare to claim.

I’ve just completed DS’s first PIP form, he currently gets DLA.

He is autistic with ADHD as well as learning difficulties. He needs lots of help daily with practical stuff but the biggest stuff is socially and travelling (naturally enough with ASD).

At the moment as far as I can see he meets the criteria for upper rate mobility and standard rate care. I have no doubt that this will be a nightmare to get though.

I’ve put on the form that in a face to face appointment DS might make eye contact but he might not. He might stay in the room or he might want to leave.

He has meltdowns which I can’t evidence except with photos of holes in walls at home. If he melts down on public transport or in public he is vulnerable as he is basically a child in a man’s body now. People wouldn’t understand and he risks assault from halfwits who think he is just being aggressive. For the record DS has never injured anyone..only himself as he punches his head or bangs his head on walls.

The only evidence I can give is to ask them to contact the school who can tell them what happens when DS gets upset.

I think the other issue is that if your condition worsens you need to ask them to review any current award.

I did this for a friend who I do some care work for.

The irritating thing is that when I phoned on her behalf their first comment was to warn me that she could end up losing everything

I pointed out that she was not going to be asking for anything she wasn’t entitled to.

Thankfully I managed to get both Care and Mobilty awards increased to enhanced rate. However it was an awful experience for her and she needed a further face to face assessment.

I agree that it’s awful for those who have nobody to advocate for them.

As someone who sits on PIP & ESA appeals- DWP not the Tribunal contact anyone on your behalf. It's your responsibility to get those documents together.

dolores
The only evidence I can give is to ask them to contact the school who can tell them what happens when DS gets upset

They won't contact anyone, the onus is o
n you to provide the evidence, so please contact the school yourself and go in, let school know you need a full account, get them to send it to you, with a copy for DWP, then put son's NI no. etc. on the copy and submit it to DWP PO Tracked.

Then and only then can you make sure they cannot say they have never received it.

x-post McNeat !

This is the problem I’ve had with evidnace. The giving you a months notice from the date of the letter. Minus the few days it’s takes to arrive you are looking at 4 weeks. I phoned my surgery to ask for a letter, but they said I had to see the Gp, but obviously the appointment was 3 weeks away. So I seen the Gp this week and asked him, and I’m hoping it will be ready by Tuesday to send off. How much he will write, I don’t know right now, if it’s basic or he’s missed our stuff (locum, how far will he look into my records?) Same with the psychiatrist, I’m seeing him 6 days after the MR is due. So all I can do in that case is send it in when I get it.

I’m not under rheumatology at the moment, it’s just a case of if I need to see her I can ask to go back. She gave me my diagnosis- hyper mobility syndrome, fibro, osteoarthritis (which are all linked) along with a pile of leaflets on each one, and how to best manage my conditions.

I’ve evidence that I’ve recently undergone another round of injections in my back, but I’ve phoned and asked the secretary for a letter, and followed it up weekly but nothing yet.

When I had my FTF she asked for all the appointments I had with the psychiatrist I said some I don’t get letters, they give me the next date on a post-it note, likewise with my bloods.

Trying to contact everyone for this information isn’t as easy as it sounds, especially when you are only given 4 weeks.

My bipolar ain’t going to get better, it’s going to be controlled, but it’s always going to be there. My hyper mobility is never going to change, the fibro isn’t going to disappear, and so on. So when you’ve been through physio, gone through pain clinic, have a shed load of meds that is letting you get by each day, you learn to live with things. It’s no longer back and forth seeing consultants anymore. You reach a stage of ‘come back if you need to see me’. It kind of makes me wish that I did ask to see them every few months just so I had ‘proof’ that I have these conditions. Imagine if everyone going through this done that!

My last appointment to see the orthopaedic consultant was about 18 months. It was then over a year from that appointment until I could have my (4th round) of injections. The NHS is struggling as it is. Surely this has to be an easier way of doing things?

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but it might be helpful when it comes to considering the timescale for getting further evidence in for your MR. Although you need to request a MR within a calendar month of the date on the decision notice, if you advise at the time that you make your request (recommend telephoning to do this) that you will be sending further evidence you will be given an extra 28 days to provide it from the date you make that request. If you are going to have difficulty getting the evidence in within that time, an extension of 2 weeks can be granted to the deadline (although you will need to call to request this) so in effect you've got up to 6 weeks to get your evidence in from the date that your MR is requested. Hope that reads properly, can explain further if needed.

Cabininthesnow
Exactly.
They tell me I have to get the evidence, my HCP's tell me they can't do that and PIP need to ask, and I'm stuck in the middle.

Just because, a couple of things that were said to me at tribunal.

I must be walking my daughter the 30 minutes to school and back each day.
I said I didn't, and never had and was told that I had to be, as no 13 year old would be doing that alone.

Later on on the interview I was pulled up because I referred to my daughter as being 14, and on the forms I'd said she was 13.
Birthdays happen.
That's just two of many examples.

The assessor asked me, my children's ages and because I said them right she used this to say I have no cognitive problems and therefore manage everything OK! We can't win, they twist everything you say.

Don't they just

I had 'how old are your children' '10 and 13' 'Did you say 9 and 13?'
No, 10.

Conclusion: You have no cognitive problems and good memory' (no memory tests carried out.

Quite different to asking you things like to remember random things - short term memory.

I'm surprised at the Tribunal making assumptions like that. Thought it was more the assessors. Of course 13 year olds don't need walking to school. I mentioned my 13 year old goes to the shop for me sometimes.

Thank you Blank

Makes me wonder why they ask for contact names and numbers then if not prepared to contact anyone.

When I was a HV they used to ring me occasionally about a child’s application for DLA but that’s different I guess.

I will make complaints if they fail to contact people having asked for those details through. I have new letters to send in since I sent the form off so will send copies of those,

They have recently changed the forms to make it clear it is you who needs to collect evidence.

You can make complaints but when I complain they just send a letter back form that dept, it didn't really help unfortunately.

@deloresjaneumbridge In your position it's even more important to appeal because when they look at the papers the tribunal panel will contact people for information.

We have this issue with my DD's case because our GP surgery won't give any reports or letters or information for DLA or PIP purposes unless contacted by the DWP or tribunal service. So we have to start the process knowing we'll probably have to go to appeal as it's the only way to get the info.

To be fair to the GP they say there's little point in them giving information as nine times out of ten it's ignored completely by the DWP in favour of the face-to-face with the physio or whoever you see for 20 minutes. They don't have time for pointless paperwork.

You can request letters though in your records such as consultant's letters and copy them. We all have that right, don't we? To access records.

Just reading the comments, again not sure if its just me but my tribunal requested my medical notes, because they did a copy got sent to me, so when my ESA comes up in a month my plan is to send those

The benefits & work guides are really helpful & have a forum can ask an expert, if you sign up for the newsletter they do discount on the subscription fee. I didn't get much help from CAB luckily we had already read the above guides as manager did the description test & decided that I wouldn't score enough be entitled so clearly didn't have a clue. I went to see a disability charity instead.

Its such a difficult process, the form is huge effort & seems waste of time. I got 0 points in PIP f2f assessment. We knew from reading B&W info how it works DWP turn down & hope claiment gives up, but it still doesn't change how it feels to not feel listened to or believed with health issues dismissed.

The cognitive tests are laughable, you can remember how you got here (car/bus etc) = short term memory. Can recite your past history = long term memory. I'm fairly sure this isn't how doctors would test it, my grandad had dementia and would pass those questions most days.

MR is really just a formality to take to appeal & you can add extra evidence to case then. Tribunal turned out to be more what I expected from F2F assessment, it felt fairer. I opted to go to mine even though it was incredible difficult because unless you've good evidence, paper hearings have a lower % of success. Luckily I was able to get a welfare rights rep to go with me, it wasn't as bad as I thought & questions were what I expected to be asked at DWP assessment & felt fair. I won my appeal, but as it took 20months from initial claim I probably only have another 12-18month before I have to go through it all again.

I felt suicidal in weeks running up to tribunal the stress was just too much & i want to drop it, but financially I just couldn't afford to give up as I trying to live had put me in lot of debt & was at point couldn't afford my treatment much longer as have to self fund.

I ended up going privately to see a consultant to get necessary evidence (family kindly paid) as its not something NHS would refer me as they only see those on extreme end of spectrum due to funds, yet its then deemed as only GP diagnosis not that severe, yet impacts my life hugely.

Oh tip I got from welfare rights advisor was that your condition should be as the initial claim& not to say its worse then will need to start over again. I guess there's exceptions to that.
Your judged from when you enter & not just in the room. Some courts aren't good for mobility appeals as if can make it to room not deemed to be severe problem, of course this is stupid snapshot as may not be able to do it repeatedly or may spend following days in bed because of it.

It feels like whole process is designed to trip you up & not fair

It feels like whole process is designed to trip you up & not fair

Definitely the Face to Face is measured on the distance from where you parked to the office your interview is in, they use the CCTV to see if you do that journey in one go or have to stop, how you manage the heavy doors, how you sit and get up off the chairs outside where you have to wait, how you respond to the interviewer when you're invited in, the whole thing is a test and your responses are noted before you even get into the office for the assessment.

There was no parking at all at or nearby the Court we attended for Tribunal, which is in a city an hour's journey from home.

Having gone through this with a family member, I’d say

Original Application - look online for assistance in how you word your answer. They’re not asking you to explain or prove what conditions you have, simply having a disability doesn’t mean you qualify for PIP - what is important is how it affects your daily life. Relying on a diagnosis only won’t get you the award.

As said previously, gather as much evidence as you can as the DWP will not request any.

If you’re awaiting an appeal date, and your condition changes apply again - you can still do a new application whilst awaiting an appeal. Yes it might mean missing out on backpay, but if your condition has changed it’s worth it as you’ll get a new assessment sooner than an appeal date.