AIBU to think I can be a mental health nurse without being physically attacked?

[Treebauble]

I have been thinking about going back to university now that my children are a little older to go to university for nursing. My dh says I should do adult nursing and I was really interested in doing mental health nursing, specifically with the aim that I could work with youth with issues such as severe autism. My DM thinks if I go in to mental health I will be forced to work in a ward where I will be physically attacked and it will be understaffed, so it could be quite dangerous. I don't know if I am being naive. AIBU to assume there is adequate staffing levels of nurses in mental health so there would be many people around if any patient were to get violent and that it would be safe? For those that know, is adult nursing less risky?

I work in secure mental health and learning disability units and am regularly dealing with physical violence.
I have worked with some extremely dangerous individuals over the years and had quite a few injuries.
I absolutely love my job but it is certainly not for everyone.

Go be a mental health nurse and fight stigmatised views that suggest those with mental health problems are going to be more violent and attack you then any other person

Yes but be prepared to get attacked and know that due to staffing shortages, you won't always have back up.

Btw no-one has suggested people with MH problems are going to be more violent than your average A&E patient.

It saddens me to hear such bad experiences. I’ve been a Mental Health Nurse for 25 years. Mostly in Community with older people. I have never been physically attacked like others here have described. I think it depends on what area you choose to work in, the team you work with and the Trust you work for. I have experienced verbal aggression frequently, but I have received good support throughout, and it really goes with the territory. I have worked with some amazing, inspiring people. That’s not to say it’s an easy job at all, but in my view, the challenge has been absolutely worth it.

My husband works in the community not on a ward and there are still fairly high levels of violence... not directly due to understaffing but due to cuts. Often you fine violent people passed repeatedly between police and community teams... theres just less social care services available and so theres a higher number of people behaving violently. These 136 suites are a nightmare as well apparently.. I know loads of staff have been injured in the one near us. So dont assume community based work will be free of violence.

My best friend is a mental health nurse in a hospital that has dementia as well as those with other issues.

She's been physically assaulted five times in about 9 months, with two needing hospital attendances and one with serious concussion. She faces threats and abuse on a weekly basis.

On the other hand she absolutely LOVES her job, her colleagues (on the whole) and finds it the best job she's ever had.

It's swings and roundabouts.

I just don’t think being a punch bag is worth it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

You can earn the same money working in an office.

@Polarbearflavour well it is worth it for a lot of people because it can be incredibly rewarding... I'd find it harder to work in an office to be honest!
But it's probably not for you if you are really upset by the prospect of any physical violence as there is a likelihood of it.
It doesn't bother me too much tbh.
Really what's more distressing is witnessing people harm themselves/trying to prevent people from harming themselves. I've had a harder time coping with that.

You are obviously a nicer person than me! Nursing (all branches) is a very worthy job and of course someone has to do it...

The NHS is currently short of around 40,000 nurses.

I've worked on acute MH units and was not attacked.. It was not that common where I worked for nurses/OT/Drs. We had alarms and did MVA. They would say much violence could be contained through communication..
I did see others assaulted it tended to be nurse assistants or agency nurse assistants. But yes it could happen . Patients at risk will be on constant watch with 1 or 2 people so unlikely to be alone with them. However I have known people need 6 staff to restrain so there are no guarantees.

It happened often when i worked in a mh hospital

My dad works in a mental health unit. This happens alot

But I have no idea if it's less or more than, say, A&E.

I am a mental health nurse. The worst attack I had was as a student in my learning disability placement where I was picked up and thrown at a wall (I shouldn't have been left alone). I spent many years working in older adult mental health inpatient, I did get punched, kicked, bitten abs hair pulled fairly regularly. I have also worked in acute mental health and it was mostly verbal abuse (although narrowly missed a chair being thrown at me).

I now work in the community and haven't been physically assaulted in years.

It is part of the job in some areas and as PP have said it's difficult when short staffed. I can imagine imagine A&E nurses experience similar amounts of violence and aggression.

Im not a nurse but work with non verbal asd teenagers. I get bitten, punched, head buts and hair pulling often. Most is not done in anger. I love my job as it can be so rewarding but do often wonder if it's worth min wage.

I'd say MH more so than ED- I've only worked ED though.

I was a mental health nurse I have been punched and bitten on the acute wards on a few occasions,more times in Dementia care wardss, adequate training should be given but it does happen.

Rmn here.
I dont think its black and white that you'll be attacked however you'll likely to need to spend time on acute mh wards to gain experience (its a really common newly qualified job)

On an acute ward you would be part of a response team so that would be using physical interventions (which pp have spoken about in terms of restraining) to manage patients at risk. It might be stop the self harming, absconding, to give medication, or to stop agression etc. However you would need to be prepared to step in as part of that so youd need to consider wether youd be willing to step in situations that may put you at risk.

Every enviroment carries risk but is managed in different ways. Ive worked with high risk individuals in secure settings but the enviroment was better controlled, then with low risk individuals but in an enviroment that had more risks. In the community people tend to be less volitile but obviously when youre alone in their home if someone is just shouting it can feel more intimidating !

Assaults arent black and white though. So for example as an older peoples nurse you might get slapped when doing personal care etc by a really frightened person and it not really impact you. Every setting ive worked in has had shouting and threats but have affected me very differently depending on where i am. Its not all brutal attacks.

I think its part of dealing with people at their most vulnerable, and scared that they are likely to react is unexpected ways

I echo the comments about ld nursing if you want to work with autism

A friendhas been an MH nurse for 30+ years. In that time he has worked in the community, acute units, a prison hospital, a secure unit and care homes.

The only times he's been assaulted at work were when he was in care homes for people with dementia, where it was a regular occurrence. He loved the prison hospital - said it was a more caring environment than being in the NHS!

Another friend who's a carer in a home that has dementia residents is regularly assualted and covered in bruises, so on the basis of my sample of 2, I'd say go for it, but stay away from dementia care.

On the wards managing aggressive behaviour and dealing with restraint etc are bread and butter. However community psychiatric nursing is a totally different ball game and being assaulted is very rare (in my experience).

The difficulty you face is that most community roles will expect you to have gained experience in mental health nursing by working on the wards for around 1-2 years previously.

Potentially you could get a lower wage community job without ward experience, such as band 5 nursing just doing depots or something but the role would be more limited.

I’ve never been attacked in 10 years.
You will not be forced to work on a ward, you will be offered a job, and if you don’t apply/want to work on a ward then don’t. Maybe consider community work if this bothers you.
What experience is your DH making his expectations ok?
I’ve also worked in a general hospital where patients also attacked staff, so it isn’t exclusive.
Mental health gets a bad press. But no, I don’t think anyone would be unreasonable to expect not to be attacked at work, nurses, police, paramedics, the people in Asda, bar staff, bus drivers... no one should expect it
I love my job.

Looking at this from another angke, I am a middle class, well educated, professional, articulate woman.

When my dd had some mh problems, the MH nurses at CAMHS were so patronising, parent blaming, reductive and disingenuous - one wrote an actual lie in a medical report; one chewed gum; neither gave a damn and were generally unhelpful and obstructive.

I can quite understand why someone may take a swing in those circumstances. It disappoints me but I really can. Zero empathy in the face of extreme stress and worry combined with being jobsworths. Failed to mobilise anything until my MP got involved. Not everbody has the confidence to raise things with their MP but the CEO didn't do anything when it was escalated to her.

Violence is not the answer but many in MH don't respond to a polite request, a firm request or the facts laid out clearly. So those who don't have the words or the connections will end up lamping them. It's inexcusable but after my experience perfectly understandable.

I'm a mental health nurse. I love my job, but I don't know anyone who hasn't been physically attacked numerous times. It's not a daily occurrence, bit I would say I've been attacked 3-4 times a year (and a lot more when I worked in forensic services). Some areas are safer that others, but it would be unrealistic to think you would not be attacked.

I would also suggest that the bigger risk is the degree of traumatic experiences you will be subject to. I have been more messed by by the suicide attempts and bad self-harm I've seen (and the stress of trying to keep everyone safe with a frighteningly low number of staff) than the attacks.

OhTheRoses unfortunately many people share your (shocking) attitude that it is the nurses fault that they are assaulted.

I'm sorry that you were unhappy with the care you recieved, but it is not acceptable to assault healthcare staff.

I mean, you wouldn't "swing for" a shop assistant if they were chewing gum, or you didn't find them helpful enough.

I'm shocking that you would find it ok to say that. It isn't ok.

I’m a mental health nurse and have worked for a long time on wards and in several community jobs. I have been assaulted on the wards, but not lots and not seriously, and they are now a more tense and less well resourced place to work than in previous years. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider it as a career. We need good people to support vulnerable people who are bearing the brunt of this terrible government’s cuts. Mental health nursing is a very tough but very interesting and rewarding job.

How old are your children? I think the training could be tough if they are very small. I trained and worked on the wards before I had children and now am part time in the community so I don’t get as exhausted and burnt out as someone working full time.

ohtheroses
I’m sorry to hear about your daughter’s experience with CAHMS.

I am also an educated, professional, middle class, articulate woman and also a mental health nurse. Some of my colleagues are from the same socio economic background as me, some have left school with no qualifications and worked their way up by doing an access course. Some are ‘middle class’ and some grew up on rough estates. Some are white British and some are from different cultural backgrounds. All of these people add something to our teams and the variation help support the wide range of clients we see. I am educated to Masters level but some of my colleagues are not academic, this doesn’t prevent them from being good nurses who can make a lot of difference.

Health care professionals never deserve to be assaulted, even if you are middle class and articulate and don’t feel that you’re getting the service you deserve.

On the one hand, I’ve worked in mental health for 21 years and thankfully have never been attacked - closest was being challenged in a deserted corridor by a psychotic patient, but de-escalation training helped.

On the other hand

1. I haven’t done a lot of in-patient
2. I know a lot of in-patient staff are fairly regularly involved in restraints (usually to stop someone harming themselves) and have witnessed severe self harm or suicide ☹️. You will likely need to do some placements in these kinds of settings, and probably won’t experience a lot of this in your short placement, but need to be prepared for it if you do.
3. There’s high emotional effort in our jobs, and we are doing it in an under resourced and sometimes unsupportive system.