please and thank you in the workplace

[mansneverhot]

Do you expect people to say please and thank you when they ask you to do something outside of your normal job scope at work? AIBU to be pissed off about the one person who can't seem to manage to say please?

I am a PA and work primarily with my director but don't mind helping out the other senior staff when I have capacity. One member of staff has started asking, no, demanding, more and more of me but has NEVER said please or thank you and it's starting to drive me mad. I find it extremely arrogant especially when he has junior team members who could be doing these things for him, and when I get copied into email chains so that he can bark orders at me as though he's the big man and I'm obliged to do his bidding (I'm really not).

WIBU to start ignoring his emails completely!?!?

Seems two separate issues here. Firstly I don't care who/what and where - please and thank you are non-negotiable. So for that alone he is BU.
Secondly, if what he is 'barking' at you is not in your direct scope then would it not be better to have a word with your own line manager about 'managing expectations'. What you don't want to do is ignore him completely then a ball gets dropped somewhere along the line and it's found that you had been asked to do said task but 'ignored' it to the detriment of the wider team or project or whatever.

Unfortunately, ignoring his emails probably isn’t the way to go!

How is he phrasing these “requests”? Sometimes “Please prepare these fields” can actually sound worse than something else like “would you have a chance to prepare these files” or similar. Or is it more “mansnever get this done”?

I went on a leadership training course that said you should never say "please" in a work place as you should be able to give managerial direction without the option of the worker doing it or not, however it's important to say thank you and show appreciation after.

I decided I don't like this approach so do say please. Having said that, I don't expect pleases. A thank you is nice though.

Thank you is absolutely an essential. No way around that.

I was (mostly) joking about ignoring his emails - I'm always honest when I don't have capacity so there's no need for my boss to get involved but it really is just the way he talks to me that I take offence to.

It's all:

• "mansnever, email x to say y" (as though it wouldn't be easier for him to just send the email himself since he's already written what it needs to say)
• "mansnever, you need to change this booking because I've changed my mind" (and have even more unrealistic expectations than when I asked you to make the original booking)
• "I need you to make some really good notes from this meeting" (thanks, because I assume my usual notes are shit then)

I don't think it can be underestimated how much difference it makes if people show a hint of gratitude. I feel like he wants to treat me as his personal PA, especially when there's an audience, but my actual boss treats me with SO much more respect.

I would understand if it was a managerial tactic but we're on a similar level and pay grade, I don't think he realises this though because I'm significantly younger than the rest of the team and clearly doesn't understand my workload.

I used to be a PA and got used to the complete lack of manners! Go into any retail store and see how many customers don’t say please and thanks.

Can you imagine if a PA stopped saying please and thank you though? Or if a cashier didn’t use basic manners?

Such double standards.

I used to work in admin and I'd get really annoyed if people didn't say please or thank you but most did. Once I had dd1 I started working at home on our farm and one day had a melt down and got so angry with my husband for not saying please. He didn't feel he needed to at work and couldn't believe people in my office had been so polite. He's better now but I still remind him if he forgets

It comes down to whether you're doing him a favour, or this is actually part of your job.

If it's a grey area . . . .one difference between a good PA and a great PA is one who has learned how to manage requests coming from somewhere other than the main person / people / team they are supporting, and it's easier said than done!

Ultimately you are accountable for delivering certain things, and ad hoc requests can't undermine your core responsibilities.

In your shoes, if it's not clear and if you're not sure whether you can politely tell this person no sometimes, I would have a chat with your boss about whether this is part of your role, how he or should would like you to prioritise tasks, and managing expectations if it's not. If you boss gives you the go-ahead, you can have a chat with this guy to explain you have been advised you can help in X general way but not Y general way. If he's demanding more and more, to be honest it sounds like you can politely refuse some requests on the basis that you don't have the capacity, or it will get out of hand.

But, if you do have the spare capacity and your boss is fully supportive of you doing whatever this person asks, what you're being asked is no longer a favour, and you can't expect pleas or thanks.

IMHO anyway.

What Vladimir's said, really.

I would understand if it was a managerial tactic but we're on a similar level and pay grade, I don't think he realises this though because I'm significantly younger than the rest of the team and clearly doesn't understand my workload.

Then this changes things somewhat. I assumed he was more senior in a different team but trying to make you his dogsbody.

As you say you don't feel a need to get your own boss involved so I'd say this is a case of putting on your big girl pants and taking him aside and letting him into a few home truths: specifically about the way he speaks to you and about your role/capacity. I assumed he was in a more senior position to you as oftentimes juniors have to deal with a lot of shit from their seniors and have to put up with it but you don't - you're on a similar level so frankly you need to remind him of that. He needs to rein himself in.

What do you think would happen if you called him out on it? Does he ever make verbal requests when you can respond immediately?

I would have a think about what I wanted the end goal to be, the choices I have for achieving that, the ramifications of each and then pick what I believe is the best option. I wouldn't choose humiliation but I have no problem putting people on the spot and making them justify their position. It doesn't have to be aggressive or impolite.

Very pleased to help if you wouldn't mind using two essential words please.

Thank you

Op

Basic manners. Nothing more, nothing less.

I did once send an email back usung the Mnet favourite "did you mean to be so rude?". The sender was v apologetic! I am a director though. I drill it into my team.

I've taken to responding "I'm afraid this is not going to work for me" once I get the impression that me going above and bezond being taken for granted. And, no, I never give a reason.

Having said that, thank you is non negotiable. As is generosity with giving credit. I've learned this from my own bosses from when I was a mere graduate trainee and religiously stick to the principle now that I'm an executive in my own right.

A thank you is also warranted when employees have not had to go above and beyond but have still made a significant contribution to a success. The technical term for this, I believe, is "not being a bosshole".

taken I think it's basic courtesy and good manners and something parents should teach.

I have also been told if you use please it gives the chance for the request to be denied. That said I do use it but usually with a direct order - 'you need to do x please' or 'I need you to do y please" rather than a can you. I always say thank you. And I would never ask anybody to do a task I wasn't prepared to do myself.

Having said I would only ask someone to do something I was prepared to do I must clarify that would be if I had the proper training/was able to of course.

And I would never ask anybody to do a task I wasn't prepared to do myself.

Yes, this is incredibly important. As is teaching others to do the same.

One of my proudest work moments happened when a relatively junior female employee of mine stopped a very junior and also female employee from collecting and putting away the senior executives' dirty coffee cups after a meeting, saying "Don't do that, though. Taken says no partner has ever died washing up a cup and don't denigrate yourself by giving male executives the impression that you'll clean up after them. You're a professional, not a housekeeper."

I was standing just around the corner and was about to cry with pride.

Saying please is basic good manners. Unless one says would you mind awfully.

If you have vested authority there is no scope for a request to be denied. If you have basic good manners without authority a request is more likely to be carried through than if you don't. Ask nicely and you may get what you want, be a piggish ingrate and you certainly won't.

I'm not sure please is always appropriate from s superior but thank you absolutely is. Eg
Following today's meeting
X could you complete y by Thursday
A could you prepare the report on b as discussed
We'll meet again to discuss next steps on Friday
Thanks/thanks for your hard work on this/much appreciated
JK
I always keep a stock of little thank you cards in my desk too, especially for trainees, newer staff members or those engaged in projects outside of usual job remit. It's something an old boss of mine would do and a well placed sincere thank you note goes s long way (public sector no bonus budget etc)