ticket touts

[tinkertailorsoldierwife]

To think it’s more dangerous to buy a ticket from a tout in person than a secondary ticketing site?

My DD (15) really wanted to go to see a singer (too ghastly to mention IMO) for her birthday. Being a typical teen, she told us at the last minute so we paid over the odds for a ticket. DH bought it off viagogo. There was a piece about them in the Guardian the other day about how vile they are. But surely it’s safer that we get a ticket from there or another ticketing site than by turning up at a venue, looking for some creepy guy in a mac?

I've sold tickets on Viagogo before so I don't think they are all dodgy but you do pay well over the odds a lot of the time.

If everyone just had the self-control to resist secondary ticketing sites they would wither and die overnight.

Thanks Hilary. Did they tell you what to set the price at? The There's a lot of hysteria about Viagogo at the moment in the papers and some of the stories seem to imply that they are the ones setting the prices. Did you decide on the price?. When DH bought he was a bit worried but we got the ticket and DD was let into the venue. Yes we paid more than face value (£50!) but she wanted to go at the last minute and it was our choice so... I guess if you don't want to go, don't buy from them. There is no way I'd let her go if she had to buy a secondhand ticket from someone we didn't know in person.

@Hilda40 yes you're right. The fact they are surviving (I don't know how much they make but they're still there) implies that people are using them. But how often do you get first dibs on tickets at face value anyway? DS wanted to go to Glastonbury, tickets sell out in seconds.

tinkertailorsoldierwife. But that proves my point. No extra people will get to Glasto because of these sites; just different people who have paid more money, which has gone to to these knobbers.

DS wanted to go to Glastonbury, tickets sell out in seconds.

There are still only a set amount of tickets sold.

The issue with these secondary sale sites is the upsetting.
Legitimate tickets sell out in seconds.
They are often bough, in multiples, by touts online.
They have no intention of using them.
They immediately place them n a secondary site for a hugely inflated price.
Desperate genuine fans miss out on the official sales so end up being conned into purchasing at silly prices.

If these sites didn't exist in the way they do now the touts wouldn't be buying in such great numbers, and genuine fans would have a greater chance at buying tickets from the outset.

Obviously plans do go awry and people do need to resell tickets. Fine. Have a system where tickets are returned to the seller and IF they can be resold on the site the person selling gets the refund, and new buyer gets the tickets. Make it so that they can only be resold for their face value plus the genuine P&P costs.

But how often do you get first dibs on tickets at face value anyway?

I have been very fortunate to always get the tickets we've wanted. We set the commuters up in advance. We have all websites logged in, CC details entered, and we are ready well in advance. We make sure we have checked how the indidivual systems work - some need refresh, more often these days it is a virtual queue.

But regardless - ban the resell sites, or at the very least selling for anything more than face value, and tickets will become easier to get hold of.

DS wanted to go to Glastonbury, tickets sell out in seconds.

That is literally the only festival where there is not touting.

You have to register in advance, with your photo and address long before the actual ticket sale.

If concerts and other places wanted to get rid of touting, they could do.

But who is deciding how many tickets get released in the first place? Why are the concert organisers letting touts buy the tickets in bulk anyway? Shouldn't it be for them to police original sales?

Aragog

You forgot to mention that a lot of tickets remain unsold die to inflated prices - this doesn’t matter to touts because they made their money
The bands suffer due to lack of attendance and ambiance in the venue

Nobody wins really

@Aragog How do touts make money if they don't sell the tickets? If ambience is so important, why do venues try and block people who've bought in good faith from secondary sites? The venue has presumably been paid, the ticket seller has been paid and the fan should be allowed to attend. I don't see what good blocking them does anybody.

Sorry last one was meant for @GreenTulips not @Aragog

So they buy a £50 ticket sell for£300 x say 100

They don’t need to sell any more cos they are Quids I’m so theytuxkets go unsold me unused

But who is deciding how many tickets get released in the first place?

Venue capacity. Even outdoor venues have capacity limits.

Why are the concert organisers letting touts buy the tickets in bulk anyway?

Most sites have restrictions but these are still about 4-8. If you have a team of touts, and yes many do work in teams, using software to help them they can get online quickly and purchase several seats in a short period of time.

Shouldn't it be for them to police original sales?

Some are starting too. For example, some sites you have to enter your name and it is printed on the ticket, or the CC holder has to be present when the tickets are used.
These have restrictions though - plans can change for genuine reasons. Its then harder to pass tickets on. Or buying tickets as a gift for someone, or for under 18s without their own CC.
To stop people entering on tickets that weren't bought from a primary selling site/venue.

why do venues try and block people who've bought in good faith from secondary sites?
To try to stop the touts doing it in the first place. To stop people being ripped off.
Normally people are warned - and these days it is quite a widely known issue - that you may be refused entry if using a ticket bought on a secondary site. So its at your own risk if you do use one and can hardly complain if refused entry, regardless of how much you've paid.

OP try Twickets.co.uk they are a fan to fan resale page and tickets can only be sold at face value. If there aren't any tickets available you can set up email alerts to be notified if anyone puts them up for sale. I've used them before and they're great, I wouldn't buy from a tout or any other website at crazy prices!

If I remember rightly, you could move a slider bar to set the ticket price, it showed you how much they would go on sale for and how much of that you would get - I just wanted enough to cover what I'd paid, no more. DP had also bought tickets for the same gig but he'd got better seats!

I think the concert promoters are getting off the hook here. Friend works in the industry. She says they often release no more than a fifth of some tickets! The rest go to their mates, the band’s mates, corporates and gold card holders. No wonder people turn to viagogo and stubhub etc. If there wasn’t the demand, they wouldn’t be there. Friend also said the concert promoters are loving the kicking these websites are getting in the press and the fact that everyone has been left with the impression it’s the websites that set the prices when it’s actually the sellers.

And yes OP, I would MUCH rather DD bought her ticket from a website than a tout in person. Loads of councils have banned touts from venues so buyers often have to meet them ‘round the corner’ which is too risky. In an ideal world, the venues would release enough tickets at face value so we wouldn’t have to scrabble about for them, but I suspect they enjoy pushing up the price and creating the scarcity effect.

I've no issue with touts, and prefer them to the sites, we decided to go and see Hugh jackman, one friend looked at rhe second party resellers and the price was in the range of 250 quid, fortunately the venue still had them left, which for some reason she hadn't checked, and we paid about eighty.

Consider that against in the summer last year, one of our party lost a ticket to get in to a concert, and a tout over heard us discussing it and what to do, and simply walked up to us and said here you go, have this, no charge, and gave us a free ticket, and in we went.

So yes, with caution I'd use touts, the guy who gave us the free ticket was neither creepy or in a Mac. Nor could he have had the lost ticket. It was simply he knew he couldn't sell it at that stage, heard us discussing what the hell to do, and simply gave us a ticket.

@Bluntness100 You are lucky. But you can't guarantee all of them are like that. Indeed, you can't even guarantee they are 'genuine' touts - they could be trying to lure young people to a meeting point with other intentions.

In order of preference, I'd want to buy tickets direct at face value and then - if these were sold out and I still really wanted to go - I would use a bonafide secondary website (not gumtree etc).

No one is 'forcing' me to use them (although the dodgy practices of venues ensures so few are available to the public in one go that they are driven onto secondary sites).

Why deprive people from being able to access concerts by banning safe websites? If they don't want to pay the prices for the tickets advertised, then they don't have to. But don't stop others from being able to purchase safely.

A lot of the issue with sites like Viagogo is the tricks they use to make it seem like tickets are scarce when actually, they are still available in the venue at face value. So touts buy tickets and put them on and the site allows them to inflate the price.
Less savvy consumers then buy those tickets (thanks to Viagogos vast budgets to place them at the top of searches) and pay way over the odds for tickets they could have just bought first hand.
I work in a venue (theatre, not gigs so much) and have taken a fair few calls from upset people who have paid £100 + for tickets for shows that we still had available at less than half that. There's nothing I can do for them as I don't have their money. We trace the original booker and can block them from purchasing again but they just set up as a different person. It's becoming more of a problem and the more people use them 'legitimately' to get tickets for sold out events, the worse it will become.

@gubbiney If people are silly enough not to shop around, they shouldn't complain when they pay over the odds! (in our case we were just too late to buy them at face value and so knew full well we were paying a premium - but it was our choice). Do you turn away the new ticket owner or just block the original booker? And what if someone is ill/has a work commitment and genuinely can't go to your show so has sold them on second-hand? Should they really be banned from buying again?

I still don’t see how StubHub, Viagogo etc are any different to eBay? Of course the site ‘allows’ sellers to set the prices. They just presumably provide the tech platform for the sale, it’s not their job to police it. If the price is wrong, people will not buy the tickets.

But that's the point, some people aren't that savvy, go online and just click on a site to buy. We penalise the person selling not the one who's bought them although we'd be in our rights to cancel those tickets and they'd be even more out of pocket.

If someone has a legitimate reason for needing to cancel we have a pretty good refund policy - plus why wouldn't you resell at face value rather than at least double the price?

To give sellers the benefit of the doubt I usually contact them first - sometimes we've agreed a refund if they return tickets to us (eg genuinely couldn't go and hadn't bothered to read t&cs regarding refunds. Unsurprisingly most of time I get no response, a dead phone line or bounced back email.