Teens discussing suicide

[shhhFFS]

I have posted about the situation a couple of weeks ago but don't seem to be getting anywhere and would really appreciate some advice.

My DD just turned 13, 2 weeks ago school had a PSHE day and one of the topics was Mental health, depression etc.

A couple of days after the PSHE day I come home from work to find her very upset and after much talking she opened up to say she is depressed, anxious and even suicide was brought up.

I keep a keen eye on DDs social media, know all her passwords etc so checked messages and content and found that one of her male friends had been messaging DD saying he was having suicidal thoughts and her offering support and counsel as best she could. But of most concern stating that if he did that then she would too 'you jump, I jump etc'. I continued to monitor the situation and things seem to settle a bit, DD encouraged the boy to seek help from school and when pushed on it actually decided he felt better. Surprise surprise.

I did not tell DD I have looked at messages, as I don't want her to start deleting or hiding messages. So I have just kept talking to her about it all and she seems happy enough in herself.

This week it's all flared up again and she is sullen and withdrawn unless coaxed out of her shell (which isn't too hard). I check messages again and find DD is messaging her friend saying she is suicidal and that the only recent she hasn't is because she doesn't know how.

Now my gut feeling is that a lot of this is off the back of the PSHE day as its all shoved to the forefront of their minds and they've been given information with no follow up. I have monitored her messages regularly since she was allowed social media and there was nothing even resembling this stuff prior to the PSHE day. My other gut feeling is that a lot of this is attention and drama between the group of friends, its almost like they are competing over who is the most depressed. However, in light of recent news stories and teen suicide around social media, I can't deny I am worried.

I am going to contact the school, I'm just trying to put the right words together, because to a certain extent a lot of this is normal teen behaviour. But I am also frightened that I could take it all with a pinch of salt and be wrong and the consequences be disastrous.

I am also angry with DD. When we talked about it a couple of weeks ago we talked about how serious suicide is that it is not something to trivialise or a casual phrase to throw around. I have been around people that have threatened suicide, its deeply distressing for all involved and she is doing that to her peers. Which is unacceptable to me, they are all young and vulnerable.

Sorry for the essay, I am just wholly conflicted on how to approach the situation.

What a terrible shock op. My first thoughts are call nspcc for advice. There's a whole protocol for families dealing with children with suicidal thoughts and you need to access it. Good luck.

I would contact the school, and try to find out if anything is causing her to feel like this..... bullying, not keeping up with work etc. But they need to know about it, and hopefully can engage a counsellor that can help her talk through this.

I'd also contact your GP and see if you can get a CAMHS referral or ask for a private one if you can afford it, as I know the waiting times are horrific.

My DD is going through similar with her stepson, he's having counselling at school and has had issues with his mum but it's really tough working out if he's genuine or it's attention at times (and I mean that kindly, he's a lovely lad).

In terms of other issues, she is doing very well at school, on top of her work and good grades etc no evidence of bullying. The only obvious issue is her absent father who she has not seen for over 2 years (his choice). It's an obvious source of upset but we talk about this and to a certain extent there is very little to be done about this as I can't force him to be a parent. I have considered that she may need counselling around this at some point.

I don't think that education will make someone suicidal, but it might have given them the language to express thoughts they have.

It does sound a bit like a group of t3ens who are enjoying the drama.

I would probably talk to the school.

I employ teens who help at work on a Saturday, and they often talk about classmates being suicidal and depressed, when I ask if this is common they tell me “at least 70%-80% of their class is probably depressed”, and they all go to different schools so this seems across the board.

The discussion around mental health has certainly ramped up in the last few years in schools, the workplace, television and social media, which is no doubt a good thing. And mental health issues are something most of us, if not all will encounter at one point or another in our lives to some degree. But, and I find this hard to explain, I wonder if the information is maybe being handled in a way that young people try to then apply it to themselves? Not to diminish that people of all ages suffer from depression and there’s and awful lot of stress on young people (everyone, in fact.) but this is a fact of life that obviously we need to keep being open about and finding and offering people ways to cope, but there seems to be a lot of young people dramatising it and almost romanticising it. Sorry if I didn’t word that very well. It’s something that I’ve seen happening for a while and plays on my mind.

No I don't think the info from PSHE day has made them suicidal.

I feel that school have chucked a load of information at them and let them loose with it and then their minds have run riot.

I don't believe any of them are suicidal, I believe they feel down for whatever reasons they have going on, school work, relationships, issues at home etc and take this as meaning they are suicidal.

They have somehow reached that the conclusion that feeling a bit down or having normal feelings around issues in your life equals suicidal and this is down to a miseducation somewhere.

However, that being said I don't want to entirely work on those assumptions in case I am wrong and either DD or one of her friends is actually suicidal.

shhhFFS Agree with that. I think sometimes adults forget how teenagers minds operate.

CatsonCatnip that is also how I feel, it is what I think is going on. They seem to need to apply a label to it of depression or anxiety. DD told me that her and her friends have a scale of 1 to 100 with 1 being happy and 100 being suicidal and then ask each other each day where they are on that scale. I told her I thought that was awful and that it was trivialising and compartmentalising something much more serious.

On the other hand, whilst they are all being like this, there may be one in amongst them with genuine issues that needs help might get lost amongst it all.

The other thing is they seem to be dragging each other down into depressed feelings. E.g DD seems happy enough, until she goes and spends an hour in her room chatting to friends. I check the messages and they all spend an hour chatting about how depressed they are. And with this in mind I am going to be reducing the time she would have to do this.

This seems to be the problem. When we were young there wasn’t really the option to sit in our room and talk to numerous friends at the same for hours on end, when I was a teen social media was in its infancy. Was there anxiety and teen angst? Absolutely! Listening to depressing music that related to our woes! Of course. But there wasn’t the platform I suppose to ‘wing each other up’. And there wasn’t quite the same narrative around mental health...

But you’re absolutely right, there is always the possibility that someone will truly be struggling and it does indeed diminish it. But it’s hard to explain this to a group who all believe they are suffering. Almost feel left out if they are not!

Sorry *”wind each other up”

I've been through this with DD1 who's 13. It's complex. Below are some of practical things I did to help her see through it.

First don't get angry talking about it to her all she will see and hear is the anger not the message.

Be matter of fact and gentle about it.

Next identify her "friends" who are talking about it the most encourage her to seperated/distance herself from them, find distractions to keep her away from them

It's a big problem that isn't going to go away so I've had to face it head on also even though this is controversial suicide is a fact of life. It ranges from assisted death and terminal illness to that horrible court case in the US where a girl encouraged her bf to commit suicide and she's got 15 in prison for it. So be open about the issue, see it from all the different viewpoints and help her to see that it's only an option under the most extreme of circumstances

Fingers crossed you'll get through it with her

In the light of the recent high profile case I think I'd take her off all social media and possibly replace her phone with an old fashioned basic one so she can only text or call friends.

Does she have any hobbies or interests at clubs she can go to to keep her active and mind on other things? If all teens are doing is school then home and talking and sharing stories about depression and suicide it's no wonder they all believe they're suicidal.

I actually don't think the school will be of any help here. At all. They've ticked a box by getting the mental health talk in there, which by the sounds of it has trigger new fad amongst kids who are too immature to understand their own emotions yet.

I would however track down the boys parents, making sure they knew what he has been telling your dd about him feeling suicidal, even if it meant your dd knew you'd been on her social media.

Maybe them knowing they're being monitored will stop them behaving like this. It's so unhealthy.

My DD knows she is monitored and that I have passwords I just haven't made her aware that I have seen specific messages.

I don't want to remove her social media and convert her to a basic phone, she's not doing anything wrong and she would only see that as a punishment. Some of these messages have been over text and also from the context of them have often been following on from conversations already had at school. if they want to talk about it they will, no matter the platform, albeit it does it make it easier.

Generally she doesn't use it for bad and as I said it is well monitored. She also has a laptop too, and considering how much she uses these items for homework I can't keep all tech away.

I have looked at NSPCC and Childline websites, and it does offer guidance. But because of how this whole thing has come about, I am somewhat reluctant to put potentially feed the fire by putting more info in front of her and putting more ideas and thoughts in her head about what may or may not be wrong with her.

I have contacted the school with a summary of my concerns, and have asked if they could share with me what the children were taught/shown/given on this day. Then I can see for myself if I think showing her some more helpful information or points of contact would be useful

Hi, really hope you're ok, I am in much the same position with did (14) although maybe a bit further down the line as she is currently being supported by camhs. I absolutely agree with Disney about not getting angry or upset, difficult as it is sometimes. However, my experience is that school can be a great support so don't write them off before trying. Contact whoever is the pastoral support lead and talk it through, you may have to push and persist but your dd can get support in school as well as home. Also, Young Minds are better than the NEPCC in my experience as they deal specifically with mental health difficulties in young people, they have a parent support helpline, might be worth a call to talk it through. It helps me as it helps to clear my head a bit and see things a bit more clearly, if that makes sense.

If you can afford it, get her to see a properly qualified counsellor who is experienced in adolescent care. She needs a proper perspective on this and talking about it with her peers won't provide that and can have a negative impact.

I feel that school have chucked a load of information at them and let them loose with it and then their minds have run riot

They are already bombarded with information about mental health, self harm and suicide on social media. Instagram is full of graphic images of self harm. These things will have been a major topic of discussion among their peer group well before they had this PSHE day.

You are right that there is often an element of competition within teenage friendship groups, certainly at the school where I work, as to who has the most severe and complex mental health issues. Very, very few of the many students who come to my office telling me they "have depression" or "anxiety" would actually meet the criteria for any diagnosable mental health disorder. The majority of the time they are medicalising completely normal thoughts and feelings but they (and in some cases their parents) don't want to hear that.

MinisterforCheekyFuckery I agree with the 2nd part there, so I can I stop my DD or discourage from this. It greatly disturbs me that she is going around telling people she is suicidal!

My DD has come home in an absolute state today. Very upset. Very worried. I will be speaking to School. She is at home with DP and I am racing home from work to be with her and there will be lengthy chats tonight to try and get to the bottom of what needs to be done

Is she okay op?