To wonder what “cultural reasons” are?

[BogstandardBelle]

I was just reading a thread (though this isn’t a TAAT honest) and both the OP and some posters talk about “cultural reasons” for why someone might or might not be willing to do something. I’ve seen this mentioned on other threads too. But often, no one says what “culture” these reasons belong to or come from.

Are there some subtexts or assumptions that I’m missing here ? How does anyone know what culture is being referred to if no-one names it? Are people trying to avoid being racist or stereotyping? I’m genuinely confused by this and wondering if my very monocultural upbringing has left me missing obvious clues as to which “cultures” are being discussed.

difficult to say without an actual example really but surely it's not hard to understand cultural traditions - for example the Sunday Roast or covering up in church

Is this about the paying for the in laws thread?

If so, some backgrounds have a strong culture of looking after elder relatives.

I think at the point those comments were made the OP was being so vague that people were trying to fill in the gaps.

No I think it is the cleaner refusing to clean the au pairs room. I think someone later stated that is some cultures an adult woman would not clean for a younger woman of the same culture.

I made one of the cultural expectations comments on the in laws thread.

As above i was trying to fill in the blanks.

Some cultures do have an expectation that families will help each other in a way that isn’t usual in the uk.

Sometimes people wonder if there could be cultural factors that explain apparently strange behaviour outlined in the OP. They don't know what culture the OP comes from so can't ask outright about a specific culture, but instead generally ask if there are cultural issues. They don't know which out of thousands of world cultures might behave that way, but wonder if its a factor.

Racism usually. One doesn’t expect the same standard of behaviour from a non-Brit. Classic low level racism. For example, a man from a Muslim culture may not want to shake hands with a woman for cultural reasons while a white man might not want to shake hands with a woman because he is a misogynistic pig.

It’s the one about the cleaner not wanting to clean the au pair’s room. “Cultural reasons” are one of the suggested reasons, but no one says what culture would object to doing this!

I remember the paying for the in laws thread, that’s another one.

*just to clarify I mean racist towards the ‘others’ who are not held up to reasonable standards as opposed to white peopke who are expected to behave like decent human beings. It’s a classic reason that British politicians/police use for not helping vulnerable people from immigrant communities.

Isn't it fairly straight forward? In certain cultures there are certain traditions e.g. in various cultures it is expected that you will look after your elderly parents and defer to them. Equally in other cultures it's tradition that family is essentially one. I grew up calling my mum's friends 'aunty' as a sign of respect - it's tradition.

Suggesting cultural reasons is just a starting point, really. If a poster is shocked/angered/hurt/nonplussed by someone else's behaviour, it's good to at least consider whether there's been a genuine misunderstanding or mismatch of expectations.

Social norms which seem absolutely commonsense to us are completely different in other cultures, and I know that's completely obvious but it's easy to forget when you're surprised or insulted. Also, some cultural differences are relatively trivial and easy to identify, like how much to tip or when to take off your shoes, but the deeper social ones are tricky and often catch you off-guard.

hmmm I can't think of any cultural reason aa cleaner wouldn't clean - so I'm stumped

"Look me in the eye when you speak to me!"

In England it is considered respectful to make eye contact during a conversation. To look away can be considered shifty or cheeky.

Yet in some cultures looking someone in the eye, particularly if they are older than you, is considered cheeky or disrespectful.

This can strongly influence the interaction when members of the different cultures communicate.

Aren't there plenty of cultural reasons a cleaner might potentially refuse a certain task or job?

Refusing to clean a house when an unmarried partner moves in (strong taboo against unmarried couples).
Refusing to pick up after a teenager (demeaning in a culture of heightened respect from youth to elders).
Refusing to touch intimate items belonging to someone of the opposite sex (culture with strong standards of privacy and division).

You can't just say, hey, I'm paying you so get over it. The money doesn't negate the genuine offense or discomfort people might feel.

(Of course, you also have the right to employ someone who can do the jobs you need, so it may be that the situation is untenable and you both go your separate ways.)

cultural reasons is basically the racism of low expectations. People who think they are progressive use it to excuse behaviour that is otherwise entirely unacceptable (homophobia, misogyny, religious bigotry). They think they are being woke, but it's actually "the savages don't know any better", and it denies people moral agency.

I guess when I’m reading these threads and someone invokes “cultural reasons” for some behaviour, I’m genuinely interested to know what culture they mean. Like in the cleaner / au pair thread, I’d really like to know what culture doesn’t approve of older people cleaning up after younger people? My question I guess is why people say “cultural reasons” but don’t say what culture they are referring to. I read a lot of books about culture and society but - as I said - I grew up in a very monocultural area, and haven’t had many friends from other cultures.

Was it the nit thread? A lot of posters were saying it may be a cultural thing to shave everyone in the family opposed to just one. They also threw the culture thing around a lot to. I like in the States so I was dying to know who they were referring to.

but don’t say what culture they are referring to

There was a hilarious thread a few weeks ago in which someone living the UK, who was finding her husband's Indian parents a bit full-on, was berated for not being willing to "accept his culture" and that it was her own fault for marrying "into" a culture. That he was living in the UK and had married a woman from an English background, and therefore he in turn should be dealing the culture he had married "into", was ignored.

"Culture" means "they're foreign, and a bit less educated, so you shouldn't expect too much from them".

I live in the States.

The cleaner is an odd one. (The thread I mean!) There are cleaners in every country in the world and a cleaning job's a cleaning job so saying you won't clean for this person or that person is a non-starter, really.

Paying for family members... culture does come into play here. In this country we generally operate as little family groups, and wouldn't consider bank-rolling siblings etc. This is particular I think to the middle classes, though, as I think upper/working are a little more free with lending and helping out.

I am very familiar with Italy, and in that country it is expected that you share any good fortune you have with wider family, even if that good fortune is acquired through hard work when your sibling is a lazy arse. When one half of a marriage is not Italian it can cause massive problems as it seems preposterous that you should be expected to part with a good portion of your salary to support a sister-in-law who is lying on the beach whilst you're stuck in an office or to buy a brother a new car whilst yours is held together with string.

If you want to know what culture they mean, then just ask! Maybe they have a specific culture in mind. Maybe they don't, and it's just speculation about an otherwise inexplicable situation.

I don't think it's hard to imagine that there are cultures where older people cleaning up after younger ones (or unrelated younger people, or young people who are perceived to be of junior status... etc etc) is not acceptable. It's really not that weird of a notion considering how many cultures there are where the notion of respect for older people is particularly strong.

If you were Jewish you could have a family Friday night get-together (I think there is even a TV series about this) because that is your cultural heritage. This would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do, even if you didn't say all the prayers or keep the other rules relating to the sabbath.

The ear piercing thread mentioned culture as well. I see lots of Spanish/Italian babies with pierced ears. I assume it’s cultural, more widely accepted in those areas.

I used to live with an old boyfriend in a country that was very much patriarchal with lots of hierarchy issues that were often difficult to navigate. Our cleaner only took orders from my ex bf, because I was about five years younger than her, and he was a few older. These are things that are ingrained in so many societies, and the more you get to know people, the more of these things come up. Another example is, our current cleaner is Albanian, lovely and friendly. I asked her if I could give her details of someone from school who needed a cleaner and she said of course. Sent her the name and number and she responded asking if the name was right, and how well do I know the other person etc. Anyway, turns out the other lady has a typical Serbian name and under no circumstances would she be contacting her or cleaning her house. I would say those are cultural reasons.

Anyway, turns out the other lady has a typical Serbian name and under no circumstances would she be contacting her or cleaning her house. I would say those are cultural reasons.

Whereas if your English cleaner said "no way am I cleaning for Mrs Khan, she's Indian!" you wouldn't say "cultural reasons", you'd say "racist".

OP you ask a very good question. In the example you gave Cleaner/aupair. I'm from a Nigerian culture where there is a strong expectation of respect between the younger and older generations or basically anyone older than you. However, if a Nigerian woman hires a cleaner to clean the house in Nigeria, the cleaner dare not say, 'i can't clean that room because XYZ is younger", they will get cracking with the cleaning as told.

I'd add that in fact citing "culture" in the cleaner v aupair case doesn't quite fit because within those type of cultures( including Asian cultures), a cleaner dare not question their boss. So its a moot point.