To wonder how the £1.7 million people in the UK without a bank account manage?

[marymarkle]

According to moneysavingexpert, £1.7 million people in the UK do not have a bank account. I found another source that said £1.5 million.

AIBU to wonder how these people manage their lives?

www.financialinclusioncommission.org.uk/facts

Credit unions

I am assuming they mean NO bank account at all. A credit union bank account is still a bank account.

We have a friend 'B' who refuses to havea bank account, but his an alcoholic and a gamber. Any money he gets goes straight over the bar and in fruit machines. He works cash in hand and despite being 60, still lives with his Dad. He has a very good pension sitting there, untouched from A Utility Company that he cant/wont access. It's sad really. His Dad wanted to buy him a little flat so he would be secure, but 'B' doesnt want that responsibility of having to manage money and pay bills. I dont know what B will do when Dad dies, I suppose he will get his 50% of a house and push it in to the fruit machine.

However, it isnt legally enforcable, to make soneone have a bank account, cash is the only legal tender in the country, and people have the right to demand to conduct their business in cash.

It is not illegal to arrange to have money, eg salary, pension paid into a third party bank account

people have the right to demand to conduct their business in cash

No business has to accept cash except in payment of debt.

No business has to accept cash except in payment of debt.

Wrong. Cash is legal tender.

As per Bank of England website - www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

"Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning, which relates to settling debts. It means that if you are in debt to someone then you can’t be sued for non-payment if you offer full payment of your debts in legal tender."

I don't know, but my MIL has no bank account because she can't cope with money. She uses cash and her husband and adult children buy things for her. There must be a lot of adults who don't have the mental capacity to cope with banking, surely?

My brother gets his benefits paid to me and I manage his money for him. I am his dwp appointee. He has capacity but doesn't want to deal with banks

Wrong. Cash is legal tender.

How is the statement "No business has to accept cash except in payment of debt" contradictory to what you quote?

A shop does not have to accept cash, because it can refuse to sell to you. A hotel does not have to accept cash, because it can demand a credit card as part of checking in. There are very, very few situations in which means of payment is not part of the implied or actual contract.

And you haven't had the right to be paid in cash as an employee for more than thirty years, and most people for far longer than that.

As you yourself quote, "Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning".

AIBU to wonder how these people manage their lives?

Maybe not, but perhaps you aren't considering how their lives may differ from the mainstream.

Homeless people and undischarged bankrupts aren't terribly welcome with mainstream banks.

I am speculating too, but various nomadic groups probably don't find it easy to be in the mainstream of banking (and no doubt some have no desire to).

I am guessing banking isn't a barrel of laughs if you can't read or write either.

Yes true.

Wrong. Cash is legal tender.

Hardly, as per your link legal tender is only relevant to the settling of a debt which is what I said. Where no debt exists a business can accept whatever form of payment they like.

I'm confused - is it 1.7m people or £1.7m not in bank accounts?

it Is entirely possible to get by without a bank account.

Work cash in hand or have it paid into someone else’s account (your partner?)

Live in your partners or family home.

Use cash to pay for things.

Get other people to buy things you need a card for.

How many mentally disabled people are there in the UK? I should have thought many would not be able to manage finances/accounts. Add in those who chose not to, etc.

That article was actually interesting reading

1.5 million are 'unbanked' but half are happy with that. Maybe like my brother, they distrust banks. Connected perhaps to the 25% who recently got a bank account but ended up paying fees (overdrawn?). It's hard when your life is a bit chaotic - easy to accidentally go overdrawn and lose money in fees. You wouldn't like banks if that was your main experience.

What is the £ referring to? I'm confused

Access to the banking system is a big issue too - in order to open a bank account, you need to have certain forms of ID. If, for whatever reason, you don't have passport/driving licence/bills etc, it can be very hard.

The £1 is a typo, it should just say 1.7 million people. Would edit it if I could.

BBC says 1 million people (in 2010) didn't have a bank account.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/10277151

My parents always had a joint bank account, but investments etc were mostly in my father's name. Since he died, my mother can keep her bank account because it already existed, but she can't open new accounts because she doesn't have the necessary ID. She's housebound so not only would a passport be a waste of money, she couldn't actually get a suitable photo taken for one anyway. So she can't put her money into a savings account and earn interest on it because she can't access one. I understand the need for identifying people but it completely removes the ability of elderly people to be financially independent in situations like this.

This is why companies like Monzo and Starling are good now.

Since he died, my mother can keep her bank account because it already existed, but she can't open new accounts because she doesn't have the necessary ID

www.tsb.co.uk/current-accounts/faqs/identity/

Needs one piece of ID, which includes "Benefits/state pension notification letter" which she presumably has, and one proof of address which includes utility bills, council tax bills.

Either, but not both, can be replaced by an old-style paper driving licence. You can use the benefits letter for address if not using it for ID, and vice versa.

No need for photo ID.

So she can't put her money into a savings account and earn interest on it because she can't access one

See above. TSB is just the first bank that came to hand: the requirements are roughly the same for all of them.

In Ireland rather than the UK but so used to work for a not for profit and a lot of the people I worked with didn’t have bank accounts.

Some of them had literacy issues, some had no ID and some just preferred to operate in cash.

In Ireland you can collect your social welfare payment in cash in the post office and pay a lot of bills there too. So a lot of people collect their benefits and pay x to their rent, y to their electricity and z to their gas ona weekly visit to the post office.

ReflectentMonatomism

Thank you, I will investigate. I'm in N Ireland so our high street banks aren't the usual ones you'd probably think of, and when I visited them all none of them accepted the ID that we could provide. It didn't occur to me to look at the other UK banks to be honest, but I'll do a bit more research.

I can see how it could happen. Until a few years ago I had a basic account - just pay in, DD and cash out of the hole in the wall and I had a shocking credit history (in repair now!) We had a local bank so I could use cash but I couldn't pay for anything using my card or use online facilities etc. It worked for me until the local bank, and it's ATM closed. I then had to apply for a debit card - they refused because I have poor credit history. I was rather pissed off to be honest that they'd effectively removed the ability to access my own money and I wasn't applying for credit, or overdraft just a card to pay for things in shops - which is declined if you don't have enough funds. They agreed to the debit card when I said I'd close my account.
I probably wouldn't have been able to get another account at that time and so I'd have had my wages paid into my mum's account and bills DD out from there and she would have given me the cash left.

Moving over to a cashless society is going to cause issues like this when banks close branches and also refuse debit cards (which you can't get into debt with) to those who need them to get access to their own money.