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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to believe that media education should replace music and art?

24 replies

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 04/02/2019 08:59

Morning Brew Cake

This is the debate DD and her group might end up with tomorrow, whereby media education = learning about internet safety, sharing information on social media, fraud, alongside how to research information and sources correctly.

Our main arguments are to do with value of aesthetic over academic subjects/that media ed topics could be taught across twilight sessions and parent-child workshops and that automation taking over jobs in the future might mean that the liberal arts become more valued.

Any further ideas?
Thanks in advance x Flowers

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Hollowvictory · 04/02/2019 09:00

Why are you doing your dds homework? 'our' main ideas?! 😂

goldengummybear · 04/02/2019 09:06

Most teens love music. If people didn't study music, where would new songs come from? Video games and movies would have no music.

The same goes for art- imagine no animated movies, graphic novels, special effects in movies? The video game industry wouldn't exist without artists.

StoorieHoose · 04/02/2019 09:12

school - teaches them about music and art
parents - take some responsibility and teach their children about life - that includes social media. If you dont learn about the platforms your children are using then you are a fool

Believeitornot · 04/02/2019 09:14

It’s your dd’s homework......??????

For what it’s worth I think music and arts trump because they have more benefits.

Media training - let the parents do that and let government take more responsibility for properly regulating instead of this bullshit about it being too hard.

ShartGoblin · 04/02/2019 09:15

I find this subject really interesting. This site is a good eye opener willrobotstakemyjob.com/

If she's able to present anything visually, she could have screenshots of various career options as the arts are safer than most. The attached image also has some stats on how art enriches society.

to believe that media education should replace music and art?
ScreamingValenta · 04/02/2019 09:18

Technology is evolving so quickly, that I don't think a teaching approach would be effective - no sooner would something be taught, than it would be out of date. For this reason, self-education needs to be an ongoing part of everyone's life and something which will continue far beyond school. Self-education needs to become second nature, not something which is spoon-fed in a classroom.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 04/02/2019 09:24

Researching and evaluating information and sources has been embedded in the curriculum here for ages (Scotland) - it's not something that should be taught separately.

You could ask DD to research the ££ involved in the arts: TV, film, music, and all the supporting industries - journalism, equipment manufacture and hire, PR, catering etc etc.

But mainly - why are you doing DD's homework because that's really not going to help when the robots rise.

littlepeas · 04/02/2019 09:31

Of course music and art should not be replaced! What an appalling thought. Surely this media thing belongs in PSHE?

Sparklesocks · 04/02/2019 09:34

How about the argument that your DD and her classmates should be working on these arguments at a school education level, rather than asking adults for their input?

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 04/02/2019 09:37

yes it's her homework Grin - her and 3 others. but lovely lady that I am the four of them asked me to coach them this afternoon so that's what I'm doing. Three are not native speakers, DD is bilingual, they have to debate the subject for 20 minutes. So far, they have about 6 reasons against and 10 reasons for media ed > music/art.
Even with stuttering/pauses/lacking vocab etc it's not 20 minutes' worth hence me asking for any other ideas on here.

As to the ethics of helping them at all, the culture is both the same and radically different in Germany: there is huge emphasis on independence yes but at the same time Nachhilfe (private tuition) is a bloody growth industry here - loads of kids in the state system have it and often for a few subjects not just one.

I cannot afford to pay for such coaching but, as an ex-teacher, I do it myself so DD is not at a disadvantage. It shouldn't be needed but I didn't create the system, just trying to fit into it.

So yep, holding hand up, will be enabling the four of them for free I am a mug this afternoon so they can get through in one piece tomorrow: hopefully not spoon-feeding but giving them enough ideas they will not dry up.

Thanks again Flowers

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scaryteacher · 04/02/2019 09:38

Media education should be taught within lessons. In Year 7 History for example, I taught about bias, and how you looked at sources. We used both print articles and those on the internet. There is no reason that this can't be integrated into IT lessons, PSHE, and the curriculum in general so it is imbedded.

Ds's school did sessions for parents and students after school about social media and the pitfalls of the internet, including fraud.

I do think that parents should be ramming these messages home from a very early age to their kids. It should not just be up to schools to do this. Parents have a massive responsibility here.

I live in Belgium, where music, art and drama do not feature on the curriculum; the Belgian sixth formers I have met have been very envious of the breadth of the UK curriculum and the fact that we do arts subjects as a matter of course. We need to keep these things going, as it's important to have some form of expression within the curriculum.

JasperKarat · 04/02/2019 09:41

DH did a media type degree, at a university that is allegedly one of the best for that type of course. He says it was the most worthless waste of time he's ever engaged in and he worked in the film industry for more than a decade, he's since completed a 'proper degree' (his words not mine) changed careers and is now doing a masters.
There is also a lot of research around the positive impact of music on mental health (an ever increasing issue in modern society, that one could suggest is contributed to by modern media). Also some very interesting research a couple of years ago about the impact of engaging with music and studying music that helps with reducing reoffending. An example of this in practice can be seen in the Norwegian prison system eg Halden prison which is considered to be ground breaking in terms of rehabilitation.

You really shouldn't be doing her homework.

runoutofgasagain · 04/02/2019 09:45

Music and the arts in general are SO important to giving children a well rounded education. The transferable skills these subjects teach are missed by the close-minded government and councils who are just trying to save money.

See here a few articles giving an insight into the importance of these subjects.

nafme.org/20-important-benefits-of-music-in-our-schools/

www.learningliftoff.com/10-reasons-arts-in-education-important-kids/

However, media education is so so so important in times when technology is developing fast.
Parents need to take some responsibility for educating their children and give opportunities for children to learn other skills as well.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 04/02/2019 09:52

That's exactly what I would have said if in the UK - but the system is culturally different here including how the teachers deliver and mark material and more often than not, the kids are left to drown (which makes the learning how to research somewhat ironic, as that's often what they are expected to do rather than actually being taught. So no input at all from the teacher on these debate topics. Either I don't help them and they are at a disadvantage or I do what other parents do and fall on my sword).
They have come up with 12 things, I've thought of 4, the actual homework is to practise and debate it so my conscience in that regard is clear, they are going to be doing that themselves in front of me for two hours(!) but I personally would have given them more input/steared them in the right direction if I was still teaching. Maybe I was too generous in that regard in the UK but we used to generate ideas on a whiteboard/idea shower as a class when doing debate work?
They don't have PSHRE here at all.
Thanks some more x Flowers

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ShartGoblin · 04/02/2019 09:55

Media education should be taught within lessons. In Year 7 History for example, I taught about bias, and how you looked at sources. We used both print articles and those on the internet.

That's a really good point @scaryteacher I had a wonderful history teacher who's lessons have always really stuck with me. So much of history should inform our future and learning all about propaganda was incredibly valuable to me. Teachers that encourage you to question the world around you are so valuable.

lottiegarbanzo · 04/02/2019 09:57

Well, you could make an argument that broader media are replacing traditional silos of art, music, dance etc, in terms of the way creative people work and the products of their creativity is consumed now - in multi-media, digital, interactive ways.

But the comparison you're posing, with technical aspects of how digital work can be accessed safely and understood for what it is, is chalk and cheese with 'art and music'. You're comparing approaches to accessing one thing with the artistic merits of the other. Either talk about issues of accessing and verifying both, or compare their artistic merits. Or make a clear distinction and do both for both. Don't muddle up the two.

There are still plenty of issues about access and verification in tradtional art and music - faked paintings, fake classical music careers (famous woman pianist of late C20th uncovered as a plagiarist quite recently), fake attributions - male composers still being credited with work by their sisters, wives or students. Elitisim and metro-centrism limiting access in terms of people's perceptions of art 'not being for them' as much as there being actual barriers of cost and location.

Safety, well, as teenagers, would they go alone to hear live music, either classical or pop, in the evening, surrounded by unknown people? At a festival, likewise? That's arguably less safe - certainly perceived as such by teens and their parents these days - than accessing digital art in their own homes. Yet teens of the past went to concerts and pop events without so much concern (and some of them met Jimmy Saville, or became underage groupies).

So from the 'technical support for the consumer' angle, there is a lot to say about both forms.

Music and art have a huge, well-documented power to expand minds and enhance people's ability to learn other subjects and to live better lives. e.g. The evidence behind all that 'baby mozart' stuff (without claiming any particular commercial approach has nailed it). There's a video doing the rounds on Facebook at the moment about a school in a deprived, multi-lingual area in England that re-introduced music as a core part of the curriculum, for every pupil, with instrument tuition and more and saw a huge boost to attainment in other areas. There is so much evidence on cognitive benefits of music particularly.

Then the artistic mind-expansion, critical appreciation - and perhaps, more than anything, gaining the ability to think and assess the merits of things for themselves.

theWarOnPeace · 04/02/2019 10:01

I believe that media education should be threaded through the curriculum as whole, as pp said in terms of checking sources etc. I believe that they should have assemblies and maybe some homework on the pitfalls and issues surrounding social media etc. But to completely replace arts and music is, for me, out of the question. As with maths (people say they don’t need algebra etc), it’s not music for music’s sake, you don’t have to want to become a musician to be enriched by music lessons, same goes for art - it’s about using your brain in a different way than just plodding along with the ‘three Rs’. Truly, anyone I know who works professionally at a high level in any industry, has a good rounded knowledge of music, arts, and languages. I consider the arts as essential enrichment. Media education should be mandatory too, but it can’t be one or the other. As an example, the use of lies, rumour and media propaganda can be talked about when teaching history, and could carry over into references to modern day examples. You can’t just do away with music and art, they can coexist!

bigKiteFlying · 04/02/2019 10:03

I agree with scaryteacher - I learnt a lot about source work and bias in History and to lesser extent English lessons.

DD GCSE course is going to be looking at Germany pre-war and the propaganda there and source biasis - plus her Drama GCSE will be looking very closely at presentation - and English will study literature and why things are written the way there are.

Plus so many of their primary projects have involved research - at way to young an age so we taught them about source reliability and basis as part of that and a few of their teachers covered it as well.

They also have PSHE(possibly not right acronym ) lesson 20 minutes three days a week where a lot of this stuff is covered anyway. It's also covered in primary schools here in wales in their schools - as a topic every so often – they used some TV bank adverts warning people about various frauds there and they keep pointing them out when they come on.

Music and staging is used to manipulate audience’s emotions and art history is interesting in meanings pieces are trying to convey and how why – or how attention is directed or misdirected– and how students could go about trying to do similar. Basically I don’t think it an either or situation.

AnotherPidgey · 04/02/2019 10:04

It's no coincidence (but certainly not the whole story) that decline in the mental health of young people is occuring at the same time as declines in the importance of arts/music/ creative expression in the curriculum. Where people are in times of difficulty, creative expression is a valuable healthy outlet.

Art and music are behaviour that distinguish us from other species and something that homosapiens have done for tens of thousands of years since we've been able to make marks in caves. It binds society together.

Media safety is important but is most effective being learned in context. It's also most effective when supported at home where there is most scope for people to enounter difficulties outside the controls of school.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 04/02/2019 10:07

shartgoblin That's a lovely visual - they cannot take any in sadly but I could show it them this afternoon - where is it from?
scary that's interesting about Belgium, what do they have instead/more of?
You make an excellent point about cross-curricular - I remember subbing for history and talking about Anne of Cleves portrait!
jasper thank you for the prison info

Appreciate it all. DD will too - but I don't let her comment on open social media Wink so you'll have to take it from me she's grateful and not entitled. Wine for all of you. Prost!

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Racecardriver · 04/02/2019 10:09

YABU. Many children are already greatly disadvantaged in that their parents are ignorant or lazy and do nothing to introduce them to the arts. Without art and music in schools these children might never be exposed to fine culture.

scaryteacher · 04/02/2019 10:20

Rage Latin! Belgium tends to stream early into those who will be going to university; those who will be in the technical sphere (electricians, plumbers etc) and those who will work in shops, care etc (that's a fairly crude division). The ones going to university have a very academic timetable, languages, sciences, maths, Latin, and when Blegian sixth formers came into ds's international school to practice their English on willing native speaking parents, the lack of art, music and drama was a constant.

I had a lady come round selling breakfast in December...to raise money for the local music school. As it's not taught in school, the local community will have a music school where the kids can learn, and these are funded in part by raising money. I had breakfast delivered, and supported a local endeavour, which was great. When I mentioned that we teach music in UK schools from the ground up, her jaw dropped.

ShartGoblin · 04/02/2019 10:20

The visual is from www.artscouncil.org.uk/exploring-value-arts-and-culture/value-arts-and-culture-people-and-society

It's a pretty good site actually, they have a lot of articles and it's all fairly straightforward and backed up with stats.

On the other side of things, this site is a good source of stats on online abuse and why it's so important to teach children how to protect themselves: www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/online-abuse/facts-statistics/

JMoore · 04/02/2019 10:40

I'm new here but just have to comment on this... We live in Germany too, my daughter is in Year 8 of Gymnasium (G12 in Baden-Württemberg, as this might be different in other areas).

Our school system offers what I think is rather comprehensive media education. It started in primary school (3rd or 4th grade) with a year of 'Computer Education' where the kids were taught about the dangers of the internet, how to keep safe plus some introduction to programs like Word and PowerPoint. In 7th grade they had programming classes, plus they have had numerous workshops on internet safety. In German and Ethics classes they have covered how to read different media, how to evaluate what they read and not blindly believe everything they see or read. We have had many interesting discussions at home as a result.

And yet they still have Music and Arts classes... So I don't see why one should have to take precedence over the other.

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