To not be sure what I think about the Stansted 15

[Softleftpowerstance]

Guardian coverage today. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/02/stansted-15-emma-hughes-jail-fear-separation-baby-son?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Obviously it must be horrific for the woman to be contemplating being separated from her baby and I think custodial sentences for women with small children should be avoided.

But beyond that, I’m not sure how much sympathy I have but am open to being persuaded. The group seem surprised that a serious law was used against them, which strikes me as naive. The government is going to want to make sure it’s discouraging people from doing similar action in future. Locking on to an aircraft is in itself a serious business.

I’m also not sure what I think about people stopping deportations. I have complete sympathy for the argument that the Home Office is inept and some people are unfairly deported. But I don’t think that’s true of all cases and moreover I’m not sure I’m comfortable with citizens overriding due process to stop planes etc. If collectively we have, like it or not, made a decision that we don’t have open borders and do have immigration rules then the system needs to be able to enforce them.

"“It’s nonsensical,” Chada added, “because the 15 have been proven to be right: we know that there were some people on the flight [that they successfully stopped] that should not have been on there or legally deported. "

In my opinion, and clearly most disagree

Their protest was peaceful
And having read a fair bit about issues with deportation and UK, terribel things beign done
Their protest was valid

Their protest also worked - no more deportations from stansted
And their case is raising attention to this issue

It is on teh record that Uk authorities have multiple issues with teh way they proceed with this. The "hostile environment" stuff as well.

The PP who suggested she should have had an abortion on the offchance she might go to prison at some ? point in the future (these things can drag on for years) is out of order.

"If it's not prison fine but her getting pregnant to avoid prison should not ho unnoticed."

She should get a harsher penalty than the others because she is having a baby!

Wow.

Coming from teh same person who says "Stop making this a feminist issue. "

Much lolz

It can be hard to get pregnant.

Most women can't do it to order.

The assumption that she has done this on purpose to avoid prison, is a big assumption. And doesn't really tie in with the other assertion that they thought they would get a "slap on the wrist".

If the govt is allowed to send people to prison for life for a peacheful protest, by invoking anti terror laws that were not intended for this purpose,then we are in trouble.

Nobody suggested an abortion.

I suggested she may have got pregnant as ploy. At the very least it was irresponsible to get pregnant with the case ongoing.

And you think she should face additional punishment for this.

Message received loud and clear.

A PP talked about her choice to "continue" the pregnancy, obviously implying that she should have aborted.

Lovely thread.

I think custodial sentences for women with small children should be avoided

Utter rubbish, if you have small children don't commit the crime, they're not a get out of jail card.
Similarly those women who are able to get pregnant prior to their court date shouldn't be treated differently, the child would probably by better off with a non-criminal family.

The issue here is her expecting special treatment.
People may believe what she did was right; I disagree but I see their point. But the issue here is about her (not the others I notice) wanting to avoid jail.

Which issue are we talking about? The 15 and the laws being used or her avoiding prison because she is a mother? There are very different issues.

Their protest also worked - no more deportations from stansted

Hardly a positive outcome.

She’s a hero who stood up for something good and important

Really? Perhaps you could link the circumstances of each deportation for us, since you appear to be more aware about this than most?

I don't think she should face additional punisment. I do think she should face the same punishment

They fly from an RAF base now.

The government is looking at sentences for women generally.

They are far more likely to be imprisoned for non violent crime, far more likely to have mental health problems, far more likely to have committed the crime for a family member.

The government that we have are generally not known as beign particularly softly nicey lefty so while you have your opinions be aware that the govt and expert orgs like prison reform trust don't particularly agree with you www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk

The cost of locking up women for short periods for non violent crimes, and puttign their children in care, is seen by many as not reasonable in terms of either financial cost or cost to society.

may be another thread though. Thought some may be interested - probably not though if I am "reading teh room" correctly.

Yes they fly from an army vase teejay

i did read the article.

tilly you beleive that pregnant women who give birth in prison shoudl have their babies removed immediately and be adopted away?

Wow that is quite strong. It's not what happens at the moment.

PLease do write to your MP, that is the first step to getting the law changed.

I’m not linking anything - I’ve done my research. Either you haven’t, or you have no problem with the immoral deportation of people who shouldn’t have been deported.

Astonished that some of you can’t think for yourselves and just assume that because somebody broke a law they must be wrong. As if laws themselves can’t be injust and inexcusable.

You believe this woman shoudl have her baby taken and never see it again, as soon as it is born.

You probably want to have a chat with teh PP who thinks she should have aborted, you probably have a lot in common.

This thread is awesome.

If you lie down with dogs, you catch fleas.

There have been multiple news reports about illegal deportation, peopel being deported being injured / killed, and the state of places like yarls wood with women and girls being sexually assaulted, and mistreatment across the board.

Do feel free to google.

All of this SHOULD be protested against.

Did they actually endanger the lives of others? I'm not sure that preventing a plane taking off endangers lives?

I'm unsure of the details of the case though. Did they run in front of it onto the run way while it was going down the run way at high speed? Or did they go in front of it while it was still "parked".

I don't think that they should have been charged with a terrorism crime.

"I don't think she should face additional punisment."

Bollocks.

" If it's not prison fine but her getting pregnant to avoid prison should not ho unnoticed."

Having worked in aviation for 10 years I dont agree with how they went about it.

Incredibly dangerous and they cannot set a precedence... our airports would be in chaos.

I’m not linking anything - I’ve done my research

Yes, I thought not ... such a drearily predictable response, so often seen when someone's unable to back up an assertion they've chosen to make

???

christs sake

""“It’s nonsensical,” Chada added, “because the 15 have been proven to be right: we know that there were some people on the flight [that they successfully stopped] that should not have been on there or legally deported. ""

Why not write to this Chada person?
Do you disbelieve them for some reason, you think they are a liar?

"A lawyer for the group, Raj Chada, partner at Hodge, Jones and Allen, said the case was an abuse of process."

You believe teh defence lawyers are lying.

Well OK then whatever.

I think it up to YOU to PROVE that the article / the lawyer quoted in the article contains lies.

Not up to a random poster with no access to the files to prove that what is stated by a lawyer in an article in a national newspaper is true.