To ask what is so bad about zero hour contracts

[Idontlikecheesecake]

I know there’s a lot of controversy about them and the government want to get rid of them, but they’ve always worked for me. Ive always had contracted hours and then had a zero hours contract as an extra. They paid weekly so they helped me budget with monthly pay. I could do an extra shift i wanted to, and i didnt have to if i didnt want to. Last year i walked out of a job, and the zero hours contract i had was the only thing that kept me going until i started new employment 3 months later.

I get that they don’t have pensions, many don’t pay holiday and some places don’t offer enough hours (that was why I registered with a few agencies). But surely a contract that says you may get some work in line with your availability is better than nothing at all?

FFS what is with all these narrow-minded bollocks from people who seriously cannot think beyond the end of their own noses. 'It works for me so why doesn't it work for everyone else?' And you really can't imagine why it doesn't?

Its the Me and mine are alright Jack syndrome, Taima.

Placemarking to come back and contribute. I was on one for three years and it was one of the most stressful experiences of my (not easy!) life.

Zero hours work for some and not for - many - others. Where I work, the flexibility they offer is perfect for a number of my colleagues, including some who have been offered permanent contracts but dont want them. However, I can see that if you need the security of a regular income, they simply do not provide that. Banning them entirely would cause problems for some people, I'm not sure what the answer is.

The thing is, before ZHC came in, there were systems in place to employ casual workers, so it's not as if ZHC were needed to start with. Lots of jobs were seasonal, or short term temp.

It worked for me when I was younger, no commitments just needed to work to have money and could do whatever shifts given.. so I’d average 40hours a week easily taking the shifts no one wanted (weekend nights mostly).

But currently I’ve had nothing but crap with the last two, went from averaging 30/40hours to 16-19hours because of “labour costs” and the basic refusal by management to train us to do other parts of the roles so we could do more shifts. And then after leaving and taking another zhc but promised 36hours min as they had loads of availability and everyone was zhc’s I fell pregnant.. mystically I went from 48hours every week to 6hours meaning I’m not entitled to SMP or decent holiday pay and basically couldnt/cant afford to work/go back after my mat leave. Went from over £1000 to under £200 a month with travel/lunches/bills and then childcare after mat leave £200 isn’t even close to cutting it. Especially with the shifts going down the week before.. two if your lucky, organising childcare would be a pita, and ironically I couldn’t take set days over the weekend.. when they always needed cover and I’d have childcare available.

The thing is, before ZHC came in, there were systems in place to employ casual workers, so it's not as if ZHC were needed to start with. Lots of jobs were seasonal, or short term temp.

Good point. About 20 years ago, I used to work at a supermarket in my uni holidays (having worked Saturdays during 6th form). We would agree a couple of shifts (about 7 hours) that I would commit to, and then I would get asked to do extra ad-hoc shifts to cover holidays etc. But the difference with this and how it often works now is that it was entirely up to me whether I took on extra shifts. If I said no, I still had my two contracted shifts and I still got asked regularly. The supermarket benefitted from a bank of casual staff to cover their permanent staff's holidays etc.

they have no rights, no stability, no holiday pay, no statutory sick, no statutory maternity pay, no pension. All the things that our society put in place to protect workers.

This. I was a teacher and as a money saving exercise they started to get rid of permanent staff and re-hire teachers on ZHC. No holiday pay, no sick pay, no maternity pay, no pension. Can’t get a mortgage or commit to any other regular expenses such as buying a car. No progression or promotion or any way to move forward in a career. You live hand-to-mouth one month at a time, always on the same hourly wage that will never get any better, you can’t plan for the future.

I was only paid for the timetabled lessons so if I was teaching 9-12pm then I’d go home afterwards, which meant students wouldn’t be able to contact me outside of their lesson times if they needed further support and I couldn’t attend meetings or be available to see parents etc. Understandably they would complain that I wasn’t available to do what they regarded as my job, and I’d say sorry but I’m only paid for the lesson 9-12 so I can’t hang around all afternoon to see you. On ZHC you work your contracted hours and leave. The quality of support and teaching suffered massively, but the salary bill was reduced by 75% so I guess that’s what counts right?

As soon as I got pregnant they said they couldn’t offer me any more hours so basically I got sacked for being pregnant and had no income.

I was a really good teacher. It was my vocation. I don’t teach any more because I needed a reliable full time income.

I agree that they can be useful and have worked for me. I wouldn't want them to be banned completely but I think they need really looking at and to be regulated somehow to stop them being exploited.

Seasonal or fixed term temp wouldn't work for my colleagues. They work long term but will take a chunk of time off when it fits for them. They get a higher rate of pay than other staff to make up for holidays being unpaid, so in effect they do get paid holidays. Not everyone on these contracts is being ripped off.

@Idontlikecheesecake

I know there’s a lot of controversy about them and the government want to get rid of them, but they’ve always worked for me.

The Tory Government don't want to get rid of them, the number of zhc has skyrocketed under the tories because all their donors are rich business owner's and make an obscene profit from it.

Labour want to get rid them so people will have access to secure jobs and workers rights.

It's come to something, when even teachers are put on ZHC.

It's come to something, when even teachers are put on ZHC

It’s about money. In other sectors it’s due to employer greed and not wanting to pay proper salaries and employee benefits. In education it’s about budget cuts and needing to save money and not being able to afford to pay the staff they need to do the job. Obviously the resulting bad situation for the employee is the same though.

they have no rights, no stability, no holiday pay, no statutory sick, no statutory maternity pay, no pension. All the things that our society put in place to protect workers.

Oh, and try getting a tenancy agreement, a mortgage, a loan, a car on contract, a phone contract or other types of credit when you're on a ZHC.

But they, since you've always had contracted hours and just used the ZHC as extra then it's worked for you so fuck everyone else.

Oh, I understand that BowBeau. It's a sorry state of affairs when education funding cuts has lead to this being necessary.

I dread to think what state essential services, as well as employee rights, will be in 10 years. It's a race to the bottom.

and then the retailers wonder why not many ppl have got anything to spend

tis the internet is the mantra they keep saying But i think they are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else.

It's a sorry state of affairs when education funding cuts has lead to this

What’s sad is that people are leaving their vocation because they need a reliable income. The teachers who continue teaching on ZHC are those who have no other option. All the good ones who have other options are leaving. And the kids are being taught by teachers who are resentful and not paid enough hours to do the job properly.

its a sorry state of affairs when PCSO cuts lead to this.

www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/scene-guards-norfolk-police-zero-hours-contracts-1-5876055

Because what happens when they decide they don't need you for three weeks and you have no income

There are 2 different types of zero hours contracts.

DD is signed up for several agencies and they advertise which shifts are going and where and DD puts her name down. This is not just one company who have the hold over her.

Can't find work in one agency there are others

It’s the childcare issue I can’t work out, how the hell are you meant to sort that out?!
You’d be paying for that when you’ve been sent home. Crazy!

Hubby worked on a zero hours contract, some weeks great pay, others nothing. Plus no holiday allowance, no pension. Own travel had to be paid even if the only work was 100 miles away.

I get that a lot of zero hour contracts are horrible, but not all are. I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bath water (although there is a lot of bath water).

I work in housing and in my case:

I do get holiday pay
I get TOIL in some cases
I get to choose my hours, they are made up from jobs that are vacant waiting to be filled, people off sick and people on holiday, there is no 'offer of shifts' for me to take or refuse. I look at what's available and put my name against them.

I generally get more or less full-time or more hours. In the last year, I've had one week where I was unable to work more than 35 hours (unless it was my choice)

I'm in the company pension scheme

It's illegal to enforce exclusive working and has been for some time. My contract explicitly allows it.

Although harder than it is for permies, it is possible to get a mortgage if on a zero hour contract, you just need to be able to prove you have a stable enough income to afford it, just like someone self-employed.

Please don't judge all zero hours contracts the same.

The Government wants to get rid of them.

Since when.
Not on this planet, they don't.

they have no rights, no stability, no holiday pay, no statutory sick, no statutory maternity pay, no pension. All the things that our society put in place to protect workers.

But they do. Although judging from the comment above and some of the other replies, the rules and regulations aren't widely known about. Some of them are fairly recent changes, less than 5 in some cases.

In a zero hours contract you are entitled to holiday pay by law. You are also entitled to statutory maternity pay and statutory sick pay, both assuming you earn above the lower limit which is the same as for permanent workers (around £5000 pa I think???). You are legally entitled to join your company's pension scheme, and you do have rights about notice etc.

I totally get that some companies exploit zero hours contracts and bend the rules, some companies outright mangle the rules, make sculpture out of them and sell them for profit, but we should be working to enforce the rules we do have, make them better and make zero hours contracts work as genuinely workable and a proper choice for those that want them.

A lot of the regulation around Zero Hours Contracts has come about because of publicity and also because of court cases over the last 10 years. The fairest and best Zero Hours Contracts can be very useful to some people. Lets all work to make them more of them fair and useful to more people that need the flexibility that often isn't available with other contracts.

Lets all work to make them more of them fair and useful

Not much the majority of us can do about that though, is there?