“Do you speak Welsh as a hobby?”

[syme]

I think this is a ridiculous question, bordering offensive. I was at a smart dinner with a friend who was brought up speaking Welsh as his first language in a very Welsh speaking area.

We got put to sit near a friend of his and her acquaintance. For background, this girl openly admitted that the only time she had left London for Wales was to visit her friend’s holiday cottage in West Wales. She is very bright too, and studied... languages.

Anyhow conversation is moving on, and she turns to him and asks him about his upbringing etc, and after him explaining the above, she asked

“So, you speak Welsh as a hobby?”

Do French people speak French as a hobby? Is your hobby to speak the language you think in?

Wellerr I would be interested in whereabouts you live. I know that years ago people brought up as Welsh language purists struggled with English (my great granddad among them) but now in this day and age I find that shocking. Especially as English reading and writing is compulsory after KS1.
That is a genuine enquiry by the way, I realise that tone is hard to convey in the written word

It’s in the North. And it’s totally genuine, I was shocked. I’ve encountered far more people than I can count on my hands who seriously struggle to converse in English.
The schools are quite anti-English (not all, but some), and lots of young people from rural areas never leave the county and hardly ever speak English.
That’s nothing against them before anyone starts, I’m just speaking as I’ve found.

WellErr - I would start from the assumption that communities speak their own language in their own community.
I've never been to China, but I assume everybody speaks either Manderin or Cantones in China

Well I wouldn’t. I’ve never met a Scottish person who speaks Scottish - I’ve no idea if it’s still used on an everyday basis? No idea at all. Because no Scottish person I’ve ever met or seen on tv has done, and I don’t live in or near Scotland.
Before moving to Wales, I lived nowhere near Wales, had never visited, and knew no Welsh people.
How would I know that in small pockets of the country people still speak Welsh? Genuine question?

I was educated via Welsh medium schools. You are not allowed to speak English during break times or lunch times, the only time you speak English is in English lessons.Other than that you speak Welsh or get told off.

So whilst yes at KS3 English is introduced, you are expected to converse solely in Welsh at all other times.

This is how it is at my children’s school. English as a foreign language from KS3, otherwise speaking —and being— English is a punishable offence.

I realise it’s not this way in all Welsh medium schools, but it is in ours.

—strikethrough fail—

The Welsh language and the Welsh people always seem to be shit on, for some reason. I’ve never understood why. I have met lots of Americans who have never heard of Wales, or cannot tell me where on the planet Wales is. Perhaps it’s because the population is small? Although, the population of, for example, Denmark, is only 2 million more, yet everyone has heard of Denmark.
I’m also wondering if people scoff (hate that word, apologies ) at the Welsh language because places in Wales are visited so frequently by the English that they literally feel like part of England, or home. I live close to the border and so go to Wales at least once a month. There are places as familiar to me as the park down the the road to my house. As I and everyone I hear talking in these places speak English, I guess it makes ignorant people presume that all of Wales is like this and that the language is redundant.

My nan was Welsh, yet never taught my dad Welsh and nobody ever questions or criticises that. If she was Italian/French/Spanish etc and didn’t teach my dad the language, everyone would be commenting on what a shame that was. But Welsh? It’s like doesn’t matter, like it’s not a ‘real’ language. He doesn’t even talk about it like it’s part of his heritage. Again, if his mum were Japanese, I’m pretty sure he would feel, and tell people, that he was half Japanese, and feel connected to the culture and language.
Plenty of Americans call themselves Irish or Italian, just because their great grandparents were born there. Yet, I’ve never heard anyone claim to be Welsh just because they come from Welsh descent.

I love Wales and I’m proud of being part Welsh and would have found her comment to be extremely ignorant and patronising, yet mirroring the ignorance of many people.

My DGF was born in the Welsh community in 1910. It seems the same level of ignorance as necessitated a seperate colony to preserve the language and culture is still prevelant.

It's sad. Wales is a wonderful place (I grew up in Pembrokeshire but left for work) yet it seems to be continuously ignored and belittled except when people need a nice place to go on holiday.

@ansumpasty I think you are wrong about America. When I travelled there with a Welsh friend she had loads of people chatting to her about having been to Wales, Brains beer and Wales in general.

I really hate racism towards welsh people.
I’m welsh, speak welsh. Most of my family spoke it as a first language (and we’re from one of the larger cities in South Wales where English is more common). My nana (in her early 90’s now) was beaten in school for speaking welsh.
Such attitudes have and continue to harm welsh language and culture.

@Mercier1 I lived there for 5 years and trust me, most didn’t have a clue. 90% also would refer to me being from London, even though I’m from nowhere near London. I had one moron ask if I knew his friend, because he is from London.

Perhaps you were talking to older generations? My generation didn’t have a bloody clue

How rude
I am from abroad and we have different languages in some regions. They are a huge and important part of history and legacy and things like this make sad, thinking they might disappear

Such attitudes have and continue to harm welsh language and culture.

But it wasn’t an ‘attitude’ - she genuinely didn’t know! Many people do not. And as someone who was interested in learning languages, I don’t think it was a ridiculous thing for her to ask - certainly not a racist one.

Again, if she didn’t live in Wales or know any Welsh speakers - how was she supposed to know!?

I was educated via Welsh medium schools. You are not allowed to speak English during break times or lunch times, the only time you speak English is in English lessons. Other than that you speak Welsh or get told off.

This seems wrong. I am in favour of promoting Welsh but we wouldn't tell a bilingual child off for speaking their other language at playtime in my school.

I would say it’s the attitude of ‘I would have just called her a twat’ ‘she’s awful’ ‘she’s racist’ etc rather than speaking to her and educating, that is of most harm to the Welsh language.

My family used to holiday in remote parts of Wales (beautiful country) and came across the odd person that didn't speak English, only Welsh.
Once in the early 80s we were staying in a place with no phone and we needed to call a doctor so my dad knocked on a neighbours door. An elderly Welsh couple answered and neither spoke English. My dad could just about say Emergency, baby and phone in Welsh and/or mime.

(The baby had a strangulated hernia and was fine after a hospital visit).

I spend a lot of time in Wales, camping etc.

I wanted to learn Welsh but was told it was pointless, because the dialects vary so much.

That was from someone who was from here, in Liverpool and had settled in Cemaes Bay. They struggled in other parts of Wales. I've noticed the difference.

It would be nice to geg in on conversations happening around me

My (Welsh) Uncle spoke Welsh, but my (Welsh) Cousins only learned a few words and had no real interest in learning it. They didn't see it as being useful. I don't know if being half English influenced that, though.

Instead of being all , why didn't you take the opportunity to politely correct her?

Unless her attitude was intentionally derogatory, maybe taking the opportunity to tell her what Wales is like and how much the language is spoken day to day would have been a better course of action.

The casual racism on this thread is not really surprising. The arrogance and ignorance displayed by some is very surprising

I thought there were around 60 languages spocken in China , so perhaps it’s ignorant to assume they all speak Mandarin or Cantonese. Though I appreciate welsh is for many people their first or second language, for others learning it might be more of a hobby if they are learning it as an adult.

It’s redic question.

But I am increasingly uncomfortable with Welsh Gov’s welsh language intentions. Basically creating significantly more welsh speakers - where many public sector jobs will become ‘welsh essential’ preventing promotions for non speakers.

It’s a policy driven by middle class politicians who’d rather spend money on the language than the fact 1 in 3 welsh children are in poverty. It shows how very out of touch they are.

(I’m welsh).

My DH is Welsh but was raised in England, an doesn’t speak it and nor do his parents. I’m British but was raised overseas and everyone in my family speaks 3-4 languages, and I remember being really startled when I first met his parents and realised none of them could speak Welsh. DS is only 2 now, and we are already raising him bilingual, but I would really like him to learn some Welsh when he’s older.

I'm Welsh but I live in England. I once had a weekend away with colleagues in North Wales. The waitress in a restaurant we went to wrote the bill in English. Her spelling in English was phonetic. My colleagues thought it was fine to take the piss afterwards. Not one of them considered it was her second language.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-44656928

I live in Wales - have Welsh parents, but born/lived in England for c15y.

Without a doubt, the strongest attacks on the Welsh language (from friends, colleagues, neighbours) come from the Welsh people I know. There is outrage about the new Welsh Language legislation. I tend to sit on the fence about it (as do most 'English living in Wales' people i know) but am constantly amazed by the vitriol of the non-welsh speaking welsh against the need for language equity.

My sister and I are a quarter Welsh. I run a company that works mostly in Wales. We went on a lot of Welsh holidays.

She still thinks "no one really speaks it".

I've given up on telling her different.

Before moving to Wales, I lived nowhere near Wales, had never visited, and knew no Welsh people.
How would I know that in small pockets of the country people still speak Welsh?Genuine question?

Did you just stick a pin in a map and decide “I’m going there”?

Not hard to find out, at all.

(And it isn’t small pockets! The amount of Welsh I hear all over places like Cardiff and Newport without trying is heartwarming.)

My experiences are the same as @WellErrr

DH is from north Wales and Welsh first language. Many of his friends from school cannot hold a conversation with me in English. My BILS and MIL are both teachers, and English is completely banned other than in English lessons.

Children in the family do not have any conversational English at all until secondary.

In this way I find it totally different to pp example of China, where I have worked lots. Many people who have access to a second language in the home take advantage of that and learn it, seeing the potential in doing so for future opportunities. Whilst I understand the history (first hand from DH's grandparents) I find the attitude to ignore English even when parents are fluent, to the detriment of young people and their future opportunities, fairly unusual.

Being English in DH's area is interesting to say the least. I have been openly mocked for learning Welsh. All of my attempts are shut down and then I'm mocked for being and speaking English. I can't win. And I am bringing all my children up bilingual from birth as I believe Welsh is an essential link to their family even though DH was so worried about my eventual exclusion that he was against them learning in the home!

I don’t think ‘not having been outside of London’ is any excuse for ignorance in this day and age. I’m not Welsh, don’t live anywhere near Wales but what on earth do people think the Welsh language if for? For people in Wales to learn at evening classes? It’s a native language of our very small island.

My DS(14) is part of a gaming group online and has made some Welsh friends. He’s asked them all about the language and how many people speak it and if they learn it as school. He’s now very keen to visit Wales!

Welsh speakers are continually faced with a depressing drip drip drip of hostility, mockery and bigotry even in their own country. Where else in the world does this happen?!

Well, how about the comment above about Scottish people not speaking Scots? Welsh (and Irish and Scots Gaelic) has the advantage of being from a different language family than English so I've never heard anyone claim it's not actually a language. Whereas I regularly have English speakers tell me Scots is just a dialect even though it's a recognised European language. As they say, the only difference between a language and a dialect is an army and navy. To be fair, even that doesn't always help, my MIL (native Spanish speaker) claims she just spoke Spanish with a silly accent when she lived in a Portugese speaking country.