To not want to work a 24-hour day because "it's fun"?

[KentishMama]

Probably a bit outing, so will keep it brief.

I work for a super cool trendy startup in a pretty senior role. My boss decided that the entire team should do a Hackathon style event where we try to solve a couple of big business problems in teams... Overnight. The "event" starts at 4 pm (after we've already been at work since 8:30) and ends at 10 am the next morning. After that, we can "have the rest of the day off."

But what about sleep? "Oh, there'll be coffee. And if anyone needs a power nap there are a couple of sofas."

I really don't want to do this - I'm usually asleep by 9:30 and don't cope with late nights, and won't see DC for 36 hours if I do this... But I know that I'll be told I'm setting a poor example for my team and that this is meant as a team bonding kind of thing.

AIBU?

What is the actual point of the proposed exercise? Are you and your team at any time in the future going to have to stay up all night solving a business problem for real?
Opt out.

Wait, entire team or entire company?

Are they shutting the whole place down at 10am on the Friday after this event?

If not, I’d take one for team and volunteer to be the poor soul working till 5 that Friday, cos someone’s got to be in charge all day surely...you’re really sorry to miss out on such a fab team building night... yada yada... etc etc

Embellish it how you want but that’s the angle I’d go if possible.

Although, I’ve worked all nighters, as a PP said you do get a second wind and sometimes it can be great having everyone together to make decisions without the distractions you get when actually trying to run a company.

I think you’ll have to suck it up, my sympathies though.

If you are quite senior and a manager yourself, you need to be the one to raise concerns about this, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. You do NOT have to ‘just suck it up’ that isn’t the style of a decent manager and I think you’ll get much more respect for actually standing up to this. If you were my manager and told me I had to do it, and then called in sick on the day yourself (not saying you’re going to do this, just some have suggested it), I would have absolutely zero respect for you. Some of your team might love the idea (in all honestly I would have loved it when I was early 20s and had no kids), but others will definitely not, and need you to be the one to stand up for them!

I’m very sorry I have plans already for that evening

What provisions are they making for your children to stay with you? You current child care won't take them overnight.

Oh and it is breaking health and safety law. And the EU working time directive.

I'd go for this from and Hand S angle, ask to see the risk assessment and has he taken into account the effects of this on working later in the week. Does the company insurance cover any H ans S issues arising from the exercise? What provisions have been made for people with medical needs and / or pregnancy? Someone may take sleeping pills, not taking them can have an adverse effect but they do not want to disclose to the employer / manager but if they take them they will sleep for 8 hours.

In fact, depending on the number of workers and how well you could do this you could approach your manager and say it has come to your attention that an employee may be taking a sleeping pill. It has come to your attention because sometimes the younger employees use you as a sort of 'older sister', and then ask about the risk assessment.

I would be even money that a risk assessment has not been done and I bet you get asked to do it. Risk assessments are about reducing risk, the best way to reduce the risk in this case is not to do it. Helpful link the minimum and employer has to do.

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/lawleaflet.pdf

Could you suggest an alternative to him for those who aren’t nightowls. Say a couple of early breakfast events?

We used to do this at my old job and it was really fun and the atmosphere was amazing but you had the choice to participate. It wasn’t expected of you and you weren’t forced so YANBU

I have had to do an unexpected allnighter after working all day and while the night itself was fine, and my boss paid for taxis, I felt ill for the next week. If I thought my job was at risk I think I'd go with yakari's plan of working to improve the plan

No advice that hasn't been said already but I am slightly amused how many of the posts on this thread were posted in the early hours!
That sounds absolutely rubbish though and I am hope you can get out of it. I've taken kids on trips abroad before now when we've left after school on Friday and travelled through the night then started activities as soon as we've arrived the next morning. It's exhausting.

Poor you. Younger people have no idea the toll age plays on our bodies. Especially women, who have children. Our bodies change permanently.

I also think improving the proposal is a really good idea. Going in early in the morning would probably reallly suit you.

My husband works for one of the tech giants.

As someone has already said, there aren’t many teams who do overnight hackathons, the engineers and maybe the data analytics teams only. However, they do a LOT of away days/offsites to solve the same kinds of problems. Is there any scope to spin this into an offsite? It doesn’t have to be at a dull corporate venue, WeWork or one of the trendy Shoteditch hotels would work.

I have done a lot long & late hours in my career, am driven and competitive, no children (yet) and yet I would be completely underwhelmed by the suggestion I hang around all night to solve problems on zero sleep.

The only time I have done late nights is where there has been a deadline and the adrenaline keeps you motivated.
You need to grow a pair and say you won’t be doing it. Your team will thank you as they probably don’t want to do it either.
Just sounds like a load of pretentious shit.
What happened to the Mumsnet mantra; No is a comp,l’été sentence.

Sorry OP but if you're quite senior I think you have a duty to stop this nonsense on behalf of your team.

**Onceupontwotimes

Sorry OP but if you're quite senior I think you have a duty to stop this nonsense on behalf of your team.**

I was about to write similar to this. Do you have people reporting to you? If so you have a responsibility to look after their health and safety.

I agree with others pointing out that if you are senior it's your job to stand up for those that aren't. Remind the boss of her/his own personal responsibilities and that if anyone is ill or has an accident that he/she and the company will be held accountable.

I'd be tempted to go 'what a great idea that sounds like a real Opportunity to get set problems solved. I guess your going to struggle to get anyone into the office on Friday to keep the momentum going?? Shall I take one for the team??'

That's if your sure just laughing in their face isn't an option I work nights and if anything gets done after midnight I will be amazed i predict most people asleep or at home by 4 at the latest!

Is it legal to do that. Should HR look into it and perhaps point out that it's against the law if it is.

Don't be the martyr to kick up a stink. Act super positive, say how wired you to participate, and then in the afternoon if the event day, get someone to phone your reception with an emergency at home and go home! I certainly wouldn't want to do it!

Surely if it's a cool and trendy workplace they should be all over work-life balance and diversity in the workplace like a rash? I'd definitely say no, and make it clear that treating workers like indentured labour is not very woke.

Yuck. I wouldn't do it. I would tell them beforehand as I bet loads of people have the "call in sick on the day" idea.

I would say for personal reasons I was unable to do this.

I'd not use driving as an excuse as they might offer a taxi.

Pretty sure problem solving while knackered isn't going to work

You know where you work and how not going with go down so only you can make that call. It seems you are of the view that you can’t really decline and I wouldn’t commit career suicide over this, I would just do it. It’s a one off.

I would, however, as pp have suggested first object as a senior person on behalf of all staff especially those with possible issues/ hidden disabilities etc. and point out the h and s/ working time issues. As a young start up they may just not care though, small companies often don’t. The alternative is then to make the arrangements as palatable as possible as pp have also suggested. You can phrase all of this in a super positive isn’t it amazing I am totally up for it but worried people might not be and there could be legal repercussions way.

Btw I think it’s a wanky idea for what it’s worth.

I work in a startup too and we do a fair few hackathons which require considerable skill and concentration from the coders and tons of energy from everyone else. I've never heard of an all-nighter hackathon and you can bet that the results will probably be quite shoddy and full of errors. why don't you offer to be the 'quality checker' and fresh pair of eyes the next day instead? You could have a mini-team to do a series of tests and maybe some (yawn) documentation?

ps. have worked quite a few overnighters/ long nighters as I used to be on call and it's sometimes needed for large bids. it's gruelling and the work quality is very, very hard to sustain. I use overnighters only as a last resort and consider it a failure of planning or a response to a ridiculous customer deadline that no-one has had the balls to challenge. never, ever planned them in!

Is it really illegal to have people working all night? Law firms do it frequently!