to think immigrants are not to blame for the lack of GP appointments

[ThePinkHulk]

I have a friend who constantly moans that they can't get a doctor's appointment unless they make one two weeks in advance. They blame immigration/ EU, saying the immigrants are taking up all the appointments whereas you could get an appointment for the next day in the 'good old days'.

AIBU to think this is bullcrap? Doctors don't have THAT many appointments today to start with, as many work part time or they have to keep large parts of their day free for call outs or admin tasks (I would imagine). My doctor only seems to have a few appointments a day.

Next, if doctors really were in the position to offer appointments for tomorrow, you can bet the government would slash funding/the number of GPs as they'd view it as they weren't needed. The real problem here is not enough money is being allocated to the NHS, surely?

I think it’s quite complicated. Yes, there are lots of elderly people who constantly go to see their GP, as well as some younger “super users” - and the fact that it’s free is a contributing factor I think.

Of course immigrants are not to blame.

FFS this is how Nazi Germany and brexit started

This is how Nazi Germany and brexit started
This is a very poor answer indeed. To compare Leaving the EU with Nazism, makes me wonder why hardplacerock bothered to say anything at all.

YANBU

The only ones to blame are the government, we pay our taxes and trust them to spend it making sure we have an efficient nhs (among other things) instead they use it to give themselves huge wage rises (amongst other things)

GP practices are private partnerships, free to hire more salaried doctors if they want, so it's not necessarily the government to blame. This free market medicine incentives practices to run on minimum staffing levels. I'm not aware of any data showing immigrants are more likely to use GP services than anyone born in the UK, so it's a staffing issue

Overheard in a Boots, pretty much word for word . .

"No love, just the prescription, just come from the Doctors, had my pressure taken and got him to look at my leg again. I don't normally go in the cold but I had to come up for the script anyway and he's so nice isn't he, I like a little chat, the girls in reception are lovely though, one of them went to school with my youngest"

Basically it was a social occasion for the lady above. Guessing she's not the only one who just pops down when they're bored and fancies a chat . . . .and the doctor.

Your friend is a racist.

The country is overpopulated, this is true but not with immigrants. Go to the GP and who do you see in there? Lots of older people! It's the same as hospitals, there are no beds because it is full of older people.

Pension is low, older people can't afford to go into care homes or even into independent living because it is so expensive- so they have to make do with how they are living now.

This isn't an attack on older people/ this is just one of the many reasons we are "full" so to speak. Really dislike it when I hear racist people blame the immigrants!

A larger population but the same number of gps mean fewer appointments per person.

Who takes the appointments is irrelevant. It’s just basic maths.

We should be producing more gps but for reasons of budget, contract, student debt etc, we aren’t keeping up. Immigration does have an impact but it’s a lot more complicated than just that.

Oooh.. Someone mamaged to bring Nazis in on page 2 already. Isn't that some kind of MN record?

I agree with PP. Majority of immigrants I know visit GP max once a year. We know, as does everyone normal, there is no need for a dr when you got sniffles

What will be next? B&Q price rise blamed on us doing DIY all the time? Food price rise, because we are.... Eating? 😂

@Lushlemming this is exactly why certain countries introduced a fee. It's tiny, just like £1, but it somehow really makes people rething, whether they need to see the gp ornot. At the same time it is low enough that it doesn't stop people seeking help when needed.

On the contrary. All of the gps in my surgery are immigrants. The practice nurse is too. They're all good doctors (the nurse is not so great but that has nothing to do with where she is from).

The patients are all local and mostly worried well. Mums bringing in baby's with a cold, people who've had a cough for a day etc.

The surgery is massively stretched though. Too many patients and not enough appointments but it's not the gps fault. There are only so many hours in a day (and they have appointments running from 8:30am to 6:30pm mon-saturday)

I think it depends on where you live. If you live on a council estate, in a city, there will be a larger amount of immigrants than if you live in a leafy suburb where the majority of people own their own homes. Or if you live in a village or the countryside.

I'm not complaining about it or have an issue with it. That's just the way it is.

I heard someone moaning about the same thing where I live. It's virtually impossible to get a doctor's appointment here. However, we live in a small town with virtually no immigrant population so I struggled to see their logic.

The aging population is far and away the biggest factor. Older people by nature have more healthcare needs.

My parents and my husband were/are first generation immigrants, I suppose I am a 2nd generation immigrant. Between us we have contributed 120 years service to the NHS. All of us working way more than our contracted hours.
Most of the people DH and I have worked with in the NHS are immigrants. The NHS would collapse without them.
Since the Brexit vote many EU staff are leaving.
We take the NHS for granted.
It is badly run and underfunded.
PFI and fixed contracts for purchasing have done a huge amount of damage.
I worked with a consultant who insisted in buying his own stationery from the local supermarket, he was so incensed by the ridiculous prices imposed by NHS contracts just for things like paper and printer ink. The millions of £ wasted by giving IT contracts to incompetent people.
Nobody wants to go into GP now, certainly not as a partner or full time.
Just one example:
I took part in a big study that demonstrated the enormous benefit of taking the pulse of patients attending flu jab clinics. But GPs refused to continue to do it unless a specific payment was allocated.
Back in the day, the doctor always checked a patient's pulse during a routine consultation.
I am glad I am out of it.
But now I am retired and seriously ill I am seeing the utter shambles from the other side.

GPs have way too much paperwork and lots of wasted appointment from people looking for reassurance or who could go to the pharmacy instead.
Culturally you can see that a trip to the GP is very very normally for some people and looking after our health seems to be the GP s problem rather than exercising/losing weight/eating well.

It depends when they mean by 'good old days' but another consideration is how much more of the workload GP practices take on now.
Complex care of people with multiple conditions was either managed by hospital consultants or, more likely, a lot of those people would have been dead.
Our senior partner recently retired but told me that for the first decade or so that he practiced (not long ago - he retired at 55yrs old, totally burned out) he wouldn't have managed any diabetes, any diabetic diagnosed would have been referred straight to a hospital clinic, for example.

It’s the elderly. The NHS has done a brilliant job of reducing childhood mortality and keeping people alive for longer and now they have lots of people with complex health problems.

People lack quite simple education and information that would enable them to take better care of their own health. One of the reasons for this is the preposterous prevalence of “fake news” (aka marketing) around food, lifestyle, hygiene etc. People go to the doctor to solve problems they ought to be able to solve on their own or with a pharmacist.

No, it's down to a mix of things with immigration likely playing a small part along with more living into old age, people just wanting a presecription rather than buy otc, sick notes for work, normal illness etc. There's only so many appointments per day.

The NHS is held together by immigrants. My DH is the senior partner in a GP practice in London. None of the doctors are British. DH is Canadian, two are from Australia, three from Eastern Europe and two from India. The practice is going to close and we are the other doctors have decided due to Brexit not to stay in the UK. The patients will have to find another local GP practice (which have a busy appointment schedule) so it is anticipated that waiting times for appointments will be up to three/four weeks.

Tbh whenever I'm in my local GP's practice, it seems to be predominantly old people and young kids. We have had a lot of immigration in our area, particularly in the last six or seven years but I do think it's the ageing population that's putting the greatest pressure on the NHS.

Certainly not here, unless by immigrants you mean all the people who have come from other towns to buy new houses.