I need help with ds

[Screamingmotheroftwo]

Good Lord help me, this boy of mine is driving me insane.
Ds who's just turned 8 has the temper and attitude of a 30 year old, this morning like most other mornings are like a war zone in my house.
He woke up miserable not wanting to get ready for school, then when I gave him his breakfast (porridge) it wasn't up to his specifications so he ended up putting half a pint of milk in it, which then made it inedible so he's gone to school this morning with no breakfast.

Anytime I ask him and his brother to do anything the answer they scream back at me is "no" followed by tears and tantrums because I've forced them to do whatever I've asked.
I'm at the end of my tether and feel like I'm constantly fighting a battle with two children.

I don't know if it makes a difference but I'm a single working mum, they don't see or speak to their dad very often so I am always tired from working and doing all of the leg work, which may be the reason I'm so snappy with them, I just don't know what to do anymore.

I don't know what to do to keep them entertained and I find it hard to sit down with them because I've always got to be doing something around the house, which is currently a shit hole.

My DS has had bouts of seriously challenging behaviour from about age 7 upwards. He's now 10 and certainly a bit calmer. I think a lot of it is general hormones, plus for my DS, anxiety. His was/is around specific situations which we have got help for and are definitely seeing improvements. Could there be something worrying your son?

He was diagnosed with abdominal migraines last year due to stress and anxiety, but there's nothing really worrying happening for him at the moment, school is fine he's not being bullied.
I just don't know what the issue is.

Is he year 4 at school? 8 is a difficult age imo. They're out of the sweet young child age but haven't quite matured into being more civilised.

Could you allocate them jobs to do such as making their own beds, putting their clothes away, unloading dishwasher in return for pocket money, or a reward at the weekend such as going to the park or playing games console.

I can remember my ds being particularly vile at that age, I did a marbles in a jar reward systems. He'd get a marble in a jar for good behaviour and a full jar resulted in a reward.

So for you it could be, if he gets ready ready properly in the morning he gets a marble in the jar, another for putting his coat and uniform tidy after school, another for doing homework when you say.

It works well because they can see the marbles building up, the reward at the end for a full jar could be a cinema trip or something.

It seems like you’re aware that spending more time with them and getting the house more sorted would help.
What are your evenings like?
How could you make more time for them?

Sort out your house over the next few weekends for a couple of hours a day. Tell the dcs that you’re all a team and you’re all going to work together to be more happy. Ask them what will help.
Give them jobs to do and tidy up every night to keep on top of things.
Limit gadgets. They can make the kids moods worse.

You’ve got a lot on and it’s not easy but it sounds like you need to prioritise spending time just being with dcs.

@Coralnails No he's in year 3, the marbles in a jar idea sounds good so I'll definitely be picking some up this evening.
They both have a list of things they need to do for pocket money ie make beds, hang up uniform, take the bin out but even that's a fight.

@Beechview I know I need to spend more time with them, i think because it's so cold and gets dark early we haven't been doing much after school, in the summer months I would take them park or meet with friends so I think it has alot to do with boredom.

My evenings are pretty busy as they go to clubs twice a week, so we get in from school around 4pm then I do them a quick snack then back out again for clubs, then when I get back it's dinner bath and bed.
By that time I'm usually so tired I can barely stand up I have no time for myself and on my days off work I spend most of my time cleaning and feel crap because I didn't take that time to do the things I wanted, like get my nails or eyebrows done.
I Also work one day of the weekend so I try to do something with them then but I feel like I'm always playing catch-up.

What happens on the day they don’t have clubs?
You don’t have to be full on entertaining mum but just hanging out with them, giving them attention while they do their thing, having a chat and a cuddle at bedtime with books, watch tv together, sitting together for tea and hot chocolate after school or whatever can make a difference.

As for your days off, that cleaning can wait for a couple of hours while you attend an appointment so just book them.
Get a routine going where you spend 20mins max on a work day doing a job. Ask the dcs to help out. This will free up time for days off and weekends.

Why are you singling one DS out when you say that they both scream no at you when you ask them to do things? How old is the other one?

He is old enough that you can talk to him about it. Ask him if he's happy with you shouting, it being untidy etc. Tell him it makes you unhappy and you need their help. What do they thing you can all do about it?

8 years old is old enough to help clean and tidy, but they do need to be told what to do. Vacuuming, sorting and folding washing, helping put washing on, very directed tidying etc. And it is something that you can all do together.

How much screen time do they have?

They're twins. It's not that I'm singling him out he's the one I have most of the trouble with, yes ds2 shouts back and doesn't want to do things, but he has a reasonable side to him whereas ds1's attitude gets worse when he doesn't want to do something.

During the week they usually get an hours screen time whilst I'm doing dinner and have free time on the weekends to play.

I'm sure you're doing a great job even though it might not feel like it.

It's easy to fall into a constant cycle of locking horns constantly. They're rude/not listening, you shout, they shout back and it all just gets very stressful for everyone.

It might sound obvious but are they getting enough sleep? My ds1 is a nightmare when he's tired.

I don't think they are getting enough tbh, they go to bed at 8pm but some nights are still up past 10 either talking or messing about, then we're up at 7.

I don't feel like I'm doing a good job at the moment, most days I try to feel positive about doing things and it's like it's never good enough for them.

I was also thinking about counselling for both but mainly ds1 for his anxiety, as there was alot going on last year with their dad which has culminated in less contact.

The nhs have a long waiting list, so do you think that maybe childline could help if they just needed someone to talk to as perhaps they feel they can't talk to me, or is that just for abused children?
Sorry if that sounds a bit ott, but I want us all to have a happier family life.

Have you spoken to the school? They may have counsellors.

Yes, it's very easy to fall into the trap of a cycle of constant battles, and also into the habit of labelling one child as being reasonable and the other not. I find my DS's behaviour gets worse once screen time creeps up so have to really make sure it goes on only when I'm getting dinner ready. Although I'm beginning to think they're at the age where they could help with that too. My youngest will happily sit at the table peeling carrots for me but she is the reasonable one

When you ask them to do things, have you tried re-phrasing it into "you need to do x" rather than "please do x"? In the evenings I would change that to "you can have the tv on when you've done x". Also (deep breath) "I'm not going to argue with you..." and try hardest to keep calm.

I feel your pain op, I have a 12 year old who drives me to the edge daily.

Actually scrap that, he drives me insane hourly.

Honestly I've tried everything, I'm getting to the point where I don't even want to ask because I just don't want the fight, like right now I'm thinking about school pick-up and what their mood is going to be, they have their clubs tonight so that's added stress for me.

Obviously I won't give up as it needs to be fixed, I'm just tired.

Ok, so then you need to change your reaction to something. You could do in immediately or pick a date e.g. half term and say to yourself things are going to continue as they are now until then, then we'll address it. In the mean time, make a list of what you want to change. See if you can find some solutions. Get by with the basics for the house/cleaning. Give yourself a break and some time for your appointments.

You say they stay up talking til past 10. I assume that means they're in the same room. So what happens if tonight you take your phone in with you, put a book on it/MN and sit there til they sleep? Every time they talk remind them it's time to sleep. Are they both tired, is one keeping the other awake? Ok, so you lose a few evenings, but you would have only been cleaning, you're tired anyway so think of it as down time for you. A few nights or a week might be enough to re-set their routine.

Just a little update, I sat them both down last night and had a chat about implementing some new rules.
I also discussed the marble jar idea and they both seemed very excited about that
One of the rules was that they stay in their own beds and not in mine, which they both followed so we all got a good night's sleep.
This morning there was a little bit of shouting but not as much as usual, so I will see how everything goes.