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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's disgusting the amount of landlords who won't accept DSS?

655 replies

7hup · 22/01/2019 16:23

My friend is 36 and just been kicked out by her boyfriend because she had a mental breakdown and multiple suicide attempts .

She's just been released from hospital and has been given a B&B room as temporary accommodation.

She has to claim universal credit as she is in no fit state to work.

Council said if she can find private housing they will cover her first month's rent/deposit/fees.

No where takes housing benefit.

It's unfair.

There's no council accommodation and no private landlords will accept it.

She's 36. No children. No pets. Doesn't drink. Doesn't smoke. Is quiet and polite. Keeps to herself. Clean and tidy. She just needs a home :(

Its working people too. My Dsis has a kid and can't move out of my mums because she works only 16 hours because of her son so would receive housing benefit. So she can't move either.

Even on Spareroom. Co. UK in our area there are 674 rooms.

ONE takes DSS. And is dou le the price of similar rooms

It's so unfair :(

OP posts:
P0pupAdvert100 · 23/01/2019 13:17

I've said this before if you want to rent a van, you have to provide, numerous forms of identification, deposit, complete forms for insurance, driving license etc so that the company and the renter is covered incase anything goes wrong. People seem to get more emotional, because a business transaction relates to a property/ home. The risk is similar, but the property may be worth more money. All landlords would like good tenants. All tenants want somewhere to live.

Gran22 · 23/01/2019 13:45

@Irma, it's to ensure everyone realises that housing isn't free, so they get benefits but have to manage the rent payments just like those on low earned incomes. Vulnerable tenants may still have an arrangement for direct payment. The Department of Social Security (DSS) made a name change some years ago. It's been the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) for quite a while. The focus has changed.

IrmaFayLear · 23/01/2019 13:58

Thank you. I can see the point of the policy. And if vulnerable people have a different arrangement, that makes sense.

AbsentmindedWoman · 23/01/2019 14:01

You cannot compare renting a van to renting a home.

There are significant educational consequences, for example, for children who are moving to a new school every couple of years because of unstable and scarce housing. Those children are starting life with one hand tied behind their back. It's not good enough and we as a society are failing those children.

It's a symptom of systemic inequality and that is why it's emotive. Because it lessens people's chances at doing reasonably well and being self sufficient in the long run.

Stable and safe housing is a basic human need. It's shocking that we have been cultured into seeing it as normal for secure housing to simply be out of reach for a huge % of the population.

Graphista · 23/01/2019 14:07

Completely agree. It should be illegal for owners, mortgage companies & insurance companies to have such clauses.

Poor tenants come in all shapes and sizes they're not all Benefit recipients.

Yes we also need MUCH more social housing built, ALSO affordable non-social housing - I live in a deprived area where developers have built 3/4/5 bed properties WAY out of the price range locals could HOPE to achieve that then don't bloody sell! Ridiculous! - which would relieve the pressure on social housing too.

Most people are decent, polite, clean & tidy using the FEW who aren't to excuse such discrimination is out of order!

"I'm just going to put it out there. If you need a mortgage to be a landlord, you can't afford to be a landlord." I completely agree with this.

"Why do you think that?" Because being a landlord involves ongoing costs in terms of the correct insurance, maintaining the property, repairs, meeting existing & possible future safety requirements etc if you need to borrow just for the initial outlay chances are you can't afford to do all this properly - if you need to get a mortgage to buy the property initially you likely don't have the funds to meet large repair/maintenance costs eg roof repairs, new boiler, rewiring...

I also think "accidental landlords" should be outlawed.

I've seen posts on here by landlords complaining they can't afford to meet the very minimal safety requirements of private letting - if you can't afford to do this you shouldn't be a landlord!

My last private landlord was like this, the place hadn't been refurbished AT ALL in almost 40 years, when new laws came in on electrical matters they begrudged paying for the equipment to be updated and when the chap came to do the work he was disgusted at the state of the old equipment which hadn't been maintained properly to the point he said if there was a way of reporting the landlord for being ignorant of tenants safety he would (apparently the fact he was there to do the work that would make it safe meant he couldn't), every year when I had my gas safety inspection done the guy would say "they STILL haven't changed this boiler?!"

The landlord before that only replaced the Windows I complained about being drafty when they LITERALLY Fell out of the building! Nearly landing on a passing pedestrian! I hadn't even touched them, we had high winds that shook them loose that's how rotten the frames were.

The one before that was good on repair side but a nightmare on privacy side and kept letting herself in when I was in bath etc!

The one before that was very good and I was sad to leave - only left due to marrying now ex husband and moving into army quarters with him.

Before that I was a lodger in several places and mostly lucky with landlords, the first one I ended up staying friends with for many years after and babysitting her kids - excepting the VERY religious one who just could not cope with the idea of my having PLATONIC male friends and basically ended up accusing me of being a prostitute!!

Considering tories are generally for landlords I find it hard to understand why they are making it harder for them to get their rents paid. But then it means private landlords are less likely than ever to take on benefits recipients. While I know they hate the working classes I'm struggling to see the long term aim here unless they literally want a continued rise in homelessness.

In areas like mine such policies by mortgage and insurance companies must make it very hard to find tenants at all and certainly I see the same properties being advertised for months on end.

"under the terms of both the mortgage and our insurance, we can’t accept tenants who are in receipt of housing benefit. It’s not our choice." Except it is - you chose to be a landlord, chose your mortgage and insurance companies (or were ltd to them by your own financial background which goes back to its a choice to be a landlord).

"housing is far too important to be the investment vehicles of a bunch of amateurs." Totally agree with this too.

We need more social housing, we also need much more stringent regulation of the private renting market (on both sides, there are absolutely nightmare landlords AND tenants)

I do wonder if this policy will continue once UC completely rolled out and almost everyone is on it! So there will be much fewer prospective tenants available to rent to!

Another thing I think a lot of landlords don't know/understand is that hb is paid 4 weekly rather than calendar monthly. I'm quite good at managing my finances and can work with this, many in receipt of hb aren't financially/numerically literate particularly those with learning disabilities and find this very hard to work out. Why it was/is never paid calendar monthly when most people's rents are I really do not know.

"ImE it's easier as usually the housing benefit doesn't cover the full rent anyway and I always have to make it up to the full amount." If you do

hb/4x52/12

you'll probably find you are getting the full rent covered but in 13 4-weekly amounts rather than 12 calendar monthly.

UC IN THEORY being a monthly payment was supposed to address this issue but it's been implemented so badly most recipients don't know what they're getting from month to month even if they're on a regular salary!

"There should at least be a basic test to show that you've read a minimal amount about the law so that you know you can't let yourself in with 24 hours notice etc rather than just letting people make it up as they go along." They should have to be registered and pass a test covering basic legal requirements of a landlord inc safety reg's & access rights. Then they can't claim ignorance either. Plus then you can have a situation where slum landlords can be barred/deregistered.

No reason why poor tenants can't similarly go on a register so that decent landlords aren't caught out in the future - then landlords would have no excuse to discriminate based purely on source of income.

"Does 'No DSS' cover those in receipt of HB but not actually out of work?" Ime yes - this is likely to become more so with UC as it's difficult even for claimants to ascertain what "type" of claimant they are as its all one benefit name. On here and elsewhere on sm MANY claimants unsure if they're receiving a housing element, if they're eligible for free prescriptions etc - and getting answers from dwp like pulling teeth! Plus claimants have been told opposite answers by dwp people if asking on different days etc - it's a bloody mess!!

I've been in receipt of housing benefit (not always full amount) for 16 years almost and NEVER defaulted on a rent payment ever. In that time I've been employed (part & full time), a student and unemployed due to illness. None of those descriptors changed what kind of tenant I was.

I also look after the properties (though I've been accused otherwise - I now take photos and mark down EVERY scuff mark, sticky door etc on the rental agreement before signing - learnt that lesson the hard way!)

"the root cause is the failure of govt to properly and fairly regulate the housing market
now we're backed into a corner with grossly over inflated property prices" while we allow MPs to be landlords - even property developers - while serving as MPs and voting on housing matters this won't change. It's a conflict of interests and should be illegal.

"That means the ll's who rip the piss with what they charge have been forced to lower their rents" this is one reason why this govt WON'T increase social housing - those that are landlords & property developers profits would drop!

"There's that saying that you can get the measure of how civilised a country actually is by observing how they treat their vulnerable members of society. We're failing spectacularly on all fronts at the moment in the UK.

Yet mysteriously there's plenty money for MP breakfast allowances or second homes, or bungs for the DUP."

I'm also sensing (from mn and elsewhere - not just this thread there's been a few lately) that the mentally ill are one of the few sick "categories" people still think it acceptable to discriminate against.

"I'd love Shelter or CPAG or someone to bring a test case on this basis" me too.

"I didn't become a LL to house people in need, I became a LL for financial reasons. It's an investment for my DS. What is wrong with that?" By doing so you also took on a moral and legal responsibility to ensure the property is safely and habitably maintained. A lot of landlords don't care beyond ensuring the rent is paid. They don't allow for repairs, ongoing maintenance, safety reg's etc

"The theory was that the councils would build more housing, to replace the properties they sold off" I'm not sure that's true given she then effectively barred councils from building!

"But I think everyone should buy a home." Geez where's your ivory tower based? Most people cannot afford to do this - mainly because the rental market has pushed prices up!!

"As an ex housing worker, I and many colleagues thought RTB would be withdrawn after Labour came into power in 1997. " the problem there is it was "new labour" not true labour, they were tories in (thinly veiled) disguise.

"its been a long long time since we had actual socialists in government." - exactly! And look at the mess we're in!

Biggerknickersagain · 23/01/2019 14:11

@AbsentmindedWoman

There are significant educational consequences, for example, for children who are moving to a new school every couple of years because of unstable and scarce housing. Those children are starting life with one hand tied behind their back. It's not good enough and we as a society are failing those children.

This is exactly the reason I now live in a HA property. 8 moves in 15 years is expensive, exhausting and soul destroying. The rents here are all much of a muchness whether HA or private, but the biggest issue is that you have no security and when you do need to leave, it has big concequences.
We've had an awful lot of industrial closure in my area, a lot of families thrown into benefits because there's not enough jobs that support a family available. Zero hours and part time for people that have worked in a specific area for many years with few transferrable skills. They're now benefits claimants and when current LL decides to sell they're strictly limited to where they can go.
I don't think it's all one 'group' that is at 'fault' for this situation, it's a variety of things that have led to it.

dreamingofsun · 23/01/2019 14:15

graphista- dont have time to read all your post. i think having bad tenants on a list is a good idea, as this would limit the repercussions they cause for good tenants....ie fewer checks needed and more likely to allow tenants where attachment to earnings orders werent feasible.

I think accidental LLs are fine...but then i am one. We have modern properties that are well maintained. Admittedly one isnt quite as lovely as it was prior to the last tenant who trashed it....but first person it was shown to accepted it. If were were banned that would be 2 places withdrawn from the market

the tenant that trashed the place was a single mum and i imagine on housing benefit? she got UC . DWP were a nightmare to deal with and i never was able to get a proper response to my request to get the rent paid directly.

WofflingOn · 23/01/2019 14:24

‘Lashing out at their wealthy overlords’
Can you really blame those overlords for deciding not to put themselves in harm’s way? If people are truly honest, the majority spend time, effort and money keeping away from people, places and situations they perceive as undesirable or scary.
Prejudice works both ways.

Dalia1989 · 23/01/2019 14:26

I also think "accidental landlords" should be outlawed. - right. How would that happen? If you have to move for a job, or because relationship ends your house is confiscated? Hmm

swingofthings · 23/01/2019 14:28

Stable and safe housing is a basic human need
Indeed, but it comes down to how you define this. I moved 11 times as a child until I turned 18. That was both a homeowners and renters. It was extreme but even then I would say I had a quite decent childhood and managed to do well at school and indeed went to Uni and gained a Masters degrees. Not all children will cope with numerous moves but similarly not all kids will be failed as a result and the 'system' can't take responsibility for all parental choices and bad fortune of all children on behalf of their parents.

Cutesbabasmummy · 23/01/2019 14:36

*But isn't it more secure in a way as they are getting paid by the local council?

It doesn't work like that anymore; housing benefit is now paid to the recipient and not the landlord in the majority of cases. The landlord relies on the recipient then paying the rent weekly/monthly.*

Exactly. We were forced to rent out a flat when the housing market collapsed last time and we had to move to another area renting ourselves. Our tenant lost his job and went onto benefits and failed to pay us, owed us a lot of money, lost us a sale and when we finally went to court and evicted him, put a hole in the water pump and flooded the laminate flooring. The flat was absolutely disgusting. We asked for non smokers and the flat stank of smoke. There was black mould everywhere as they never opened the windows... I could go on. So if I ever rented a property out again I wouldn''t touch DSS with a barge pole.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 23/01/2019 14:45

I cover the costs for maintenance, my flat I rent out is in very good condition about to replace carpets abd replant for new tenants (was only done 18 months ago) and always have repair/maintenance work done as soon as possible. I have home cover and insurances for all possibilities and should there be a situation where my tenants are unable to live in the flat fire/flood I have insurance to put them up in a hotel for one month and either cover the costs to rehome at similar price for the rest of their tenancy or they can have a cash payment

I am not obliged to do as much as I do for my tenants but believe if I treat them well I shall get the same back and so far so good

I wasn’t prepared to sell my flat at a loss and had to move so I had support with childcare

I am a much better landlady than any professional landlords I have known, dealt with even if I am accidental we are not all awful as my landlord isn’t

Jaxhog · 23/01/2019 14:47

Completely agree. It should be illegal for owners, mortgage companies & insurance companies to have such clauses.

Of course it's sad that housing availability is reduced because of this. But LL are not charities. They have to cover their costs which don't go away while a tenant lives rent free. Unfortunately, DSS tenants are much more ikely to default and/or trash a place than others. It is surprisingly difficult, costly and takes a long time to remove an entrenched non-paying tenant. My sister rented to a DSS tenant and not only did they not pay rent for over a year, when they left they ripped out every kitchen unit and all the appliances. She meanwhile, had to continue paying her mortgage and all the utilities. Then borrow money to refit the flat to sell it. Never again.

dreamingofsun · 23/01/2019 14:48

enthusiasm....u have been lucky so far. Treating well doesnt necessarily mean they do the same though.....i'm currently 9k out of pocket due to legal costs, no rent, and damage to my property and its only a 2 bed place. And because they are on benefits i have no way of ever getting the cash back

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 23/01/2019 14:52

dreamingofsun how stressful for you

I know that it won’t necessarily make them good tenants but the times it did get tricky with an ex tenant I found going out of my way a little helped appease the situation- it was the first time they had lived away from home and thought I would be coming round to change light bulbs 🙄

So far I have been lucky I hope it continues just looking for new tenants now

HelenaDove · 23/01/2019 14:56

@Wordthe Have you seen the back story on the Travel Lodge digger driver?

EssentialHummus · 23/01/2019 14:57

"I'm just going to put it out there. If you need a mortgage to be a landlord, you can't afford to be a landlord." I completely agree with this.

"Why do you think that?" Because being a landlord involves ongoing costs in terms of the correct insurance, maintaining the property, repairs, meeting existing & possible future safety requirements etc if you need to borrow just for the initial outlay chances are you can't afford to do all this properly - if you need to get a mortgage to buy the property initially you likely don't have the funds to meet large repair/maintenance costs eg roof repairs, new boiler, rewiring...

One of my BTL mortgages is £85,000. It really doesn’t follow that because I have that mortgage I can’t afford the repair/maintenance costs you list. Firstly because some are covered by insurance (together £55 p/m for comprehensive home insurance and boiler insurance) and secondly because they’re all quite small amounts relative to the amount I borrowed. So needing to borrow to afford one doesn’t necessarily mean not having any funds available to deal with repairs and maintenance. (And fwiw I have some money in a designated emergency fund - around £2,000 - and access to credit for anything larger.)

storm11111 · 23/01/2019 15:06

When the government stopped housing benefits being paid directly to the landlord but to the tenant instead, this has made things really difficult for people on benefits.

In the past landlords knew that even if benefit tenants screwed up the house they would be getting their rent each month but now with no guaranteed rent and how long it takes the landlord to evict tenants through the courts, landlords are choosing not to take that risk.

dreamingofsun · 23/01/2019 15:14

agreed storm. 7 months with no rent is quite a loss and thats how long it took us to go through the courts. it would have actually been better to have left the place empty for the 18 months the tenant was there - much less stress and cheaper

in principle what they are doing in scotland sounds interesting. Bad tenants can be evicted much more quickly, but the LL has to rent indefinately unless they are selling house. Any scottish people on this thread? does it work?

Wordthe · 23/01/2019 16:37

It's a symptom of systemic inequality and that is why it's emotive. Because it lessens people's chances at doing reasonably well and being self sufficient in the long run

agree completely @AbsentmindedWoman

Wordthe · 23/01/2019 16:43

If you need a mortgage to be a landlord, you can't afford to be a landlord
@Graphista absolutely!

I also think "accidental landlords" should be outlawed

this too, you are not an 'accidental' landlord, you are someone who decided that renting the property out looked like a better option than selling it at market value, you made a deliberate choice based on your assessment of the options

there was no accident

PinkGin24 · 23/01/2019 16:46

I cannot fathom why anyone thinks LLs are obligated to offer some public service renting to DSS tennants!?

They own the properties and the can be as choosy as they want!

dreamingofsun · 23/01/2019 16:51

why shouldnt u be a ll even if you need a mortgage? Many large-scale LLs will have loans, Housing Associations may have loans. And why just because you have a loan does that mean you cant afford to be a LL? We had 7 months with no rent; and over 2k's worth of damage to the property which we easily afforded to fix (though i would have preferred to have given the money to my kids who are broke)

dreamingofsun · 23/01/2019 16:57

its no good to keep blaming society though....often its the parents fault. if you trash a place, and dont pay rent you are inevitably going to be evicted and moved on at some point. If you cant be bothered to work, or get sacked because you steal or dont turn up because you stayed up partying too often late into the night , you are inevitably going to be hard up and have to go onto benefits. none of that is the LLs fault

swingofthings · 23/01/2019 16:58

this too, you are not an 'accidental' landlord, you are someone who decided that renting the property out looked like a better option than selling it at market value, you made a deliberate choice based on your assessment of the options
Indeed a Business decision. I think à number of people expect landlords to treat them as they would treat customers of a business...except when doing so means they don't get what they want, landlords then should tbe spit on for considering letting their property as a business rather than as a social enterprise!

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