To think pet insurance has made some veterinary costs ridiculous?

[whiteroseredrose]

Actually still heartbroken about my little dog but also shocked about this.

We've self-insured Ddog because when we first got him the vet thought he might have a heart murmur so insurance prices leapt up. Currently c. £5,000 available in the account.

Yesterday the vet asked if he was insured. When I said no she outlined a treatment plan. I then asked what would have been different if I'd had insurance. She said that in that case she'd have liked a CAT scan to confirm the diagnosis although the treatment probably wouldn't change. She thought the cost was c.£1,500. I said that we could cover it so the receptionist started to phone around for availability and costs.

One place said £1800 - £2500 and another quoted £2500 - £5000 for identical treatments.

For comparison a private CAT scan for a person is £480 - £600 locally.

I'd love to know how much the equipment costs and the operator's hourly rate.

I think the prices are this high because insurance companies just pay up and then increase premiums.

Sorry about your pup

I think it’s NHS prices that are low, rather than bet prices being high, because the NHS has enormous buying power and can negotiate good deals on equipment and some services. But I agree that veterinary treatment is incredibly expensive.

Does each price cover the same thing? For your dog the price might cover sedation and aftercare as well which wouldn't be needed in a human. The equipment may also be more expensive to purchase as there is less demand.

I'm not sure you are comparing like with like here.

I agree OP.
Our dog went through a bout of diarrhoea and then vomiting. We took him to our vet who had to rule out an obstruction via x-ray. Ddog had to have iv fluids for 48 hours.
Eventual diagnosis was gastroenteritis.
It cost us £1400. He made a full recovery thankfully.
Our insurance paid up but the vet prices are a joke. Ddog was prescribed omeprazole for a week and we were charged £58 even though they only cost a few pounds to buy.

I can only see costs going higher as treatments become more advanced. Good for the dog but not good financially for his owner.

I agree OP. Even the slightest things end up costing an arm and a leg!

I took DCat to the vets a few weeks ago when she was showing flu symptoms despite being vaccinated. Just short of £100 for anti inflammatory injection and a long acting antibiotic to protect her from infection.

Saying that, I'd pay anything for Ddog. He's such a devoted loving fellow

Not something that we can claim on insurance but we use Advocate on our dog and it’s prescription only.
Our vet charges £15 for one month’s treatment. With a private prescription, costing £10 I can buy twelve months worth of treatments for £48.

You're not comparing like for like.
Vet's equipment need to be suitable for a variety of species so there's a huge outlay in equipment that you don't have with people. They also can't buy in bulk in the same way so don't get as large a discount.
Vet bills would be better compared to private doctor bills. If we had to pay for all of our medical treatments you would see how expensive things are.
Even something relatively cheap like paracetamol is more expensive to the NHS as there are overheads, medical expertise (pharmacist/doctor prescribing) and correct storage to consider. It's vastly cheaper to buy in a supermarket but you don't have the assurance that you are taking the best treatment. That's effectively what you're paying for.
I agree it's expensive. And buying pet insurance should really be something taken into consideration when a pet is purchased and budgeted for.

This link is useful in explaining some of the costs involved.

www.telegraph.co.uk/pets/news-features/pet-costs-do-vets-charge-much/

Everyone at your vet's practice wants the same as you - the best for your pet. Options for treatment should be given with an explanation of the reasons behind any recommendations as well as likely costs. If we need to change plans to fit finances we can do this. However bear in mind that every time we deviate from gold standard (and therefore more expensive) care we realise that a poor outcome may have the client coming back with a complaint that we have missed something.

I’m confused, is your dog insured or not?

Sorry to hear it isn’t well.

Our cat has cardiomyopathy, it's still easy to insure him and the premium only went up by a little bit, is about £14 a month but really comprehensive cover. When his heart issue was first discovered he had a cat scan (I know) and our very called in a cat cardiologist to diagnose him, set up a treatment plan etc we were paying £10 a month for insurance turn and the bill for the investigations and treatments would've been the best part of £9000. Even if the insurance is pricier it's usually better than the savings you would put by should anything happen, also what if two things happen in a short space of time and you've already depleted your animal fund for the first condition/incident?
PIL do the same as you and in the last two years FIL worked out the dogs alone have cost them more than double what they would've paid in insurance premiums, MIL is adamant is not with it as they are older dogs, mind you she's given up work and is ever increasing the menagerie that poor FIL is paying for...

No Ddog isn't insured but we have around £5k in an account for his treatments if needed. Naively I thought that would cover most things and has been enough so far.

I see the point about equipment being suitable for different species but presumably that applies to both pet hospitals yet one charges twice the price of the other! I think it's the nature of the business model. Insurance means that individuals are less price sensitive. Possibly why medical care in the USA seems to be more expensive than elsewhere.

We were quoted about £35 a month at the time which seemed a lot 11 years ago.

Oh that’s what you meant by self-insure. I get it now.

I agree with you. I remember my horse going in for an operation at a veterinary teaching hospital a couple of years ago, and a friend said to me "make sure you tell them you won't pay anything over the insurance limit". I ended up allowing them to push me up a further grand out of pocket, when I said enough is enough -funnily enough, he was suddenly well enough to come home.

They also charged me for some questionable things, such as about £300 to clean the room prior to surgery.

How much do you think you should pay a vet for their time? And the receptionist. And vetinert nurse. And the rent and utility costs. Etc etc etc.

Healthcare is expensive.

Prices do vary between vet practices, But for such a price difference one quote must include something the other doesn't, or be more comprehensive, I would have thought?

The thing is, vets get into the business because they want to help animals, or because they have an interest in medicine. Whilst you could argue some practice owners would be financially minded, most of the vets aren't, so if they are recommending a treatment plan it's because it's what is best for the animal.

A fully insured pet means the vets can work to their best ability to help the animal, without finances being so much of a limiting factor. Where finances are a limit, vets are more price-sensitive, but this often means compromising in some way on the care offered. E.g. the scan - when scans are done and they back up the diagnosis, they were unnecessary. When they pick up something extra which needs taking into consideration, or change the diagnosis they weren't. However without running them it's impossible to tell which is which! So the vets make a decision based on likelihood of various results, whether it will change the outcome, and finances.

As for equipment costs, I couldn't tell you how much a CT scanner costs off the top of my head, but you could get a house cheaper than an MRI scanner. (Which is around 2x the price of a CT when charged to pet owners, roughly).
You also have to take into consideration costs which you dont face in human healthcare, eg sedation and resulting nurse supervision.

"Just short of £100 for anti inflammatory injection and a long acting antibiotic to protect her from infection."

A quick Google shows that a private human GP appointment is around £70-£90 for 15 minutes. I would say an appointment with your vet + two types of treatment is pretty good value!

I agree.

My horse had an insurance limit of £5000, they spent that trying to diagnose him (going down rabbit warrens and looking at minor issues very much unrelated to the main problem, despite my numerous complaints) and the operations they eventually decided he needed were around £10k on top of that once you added in vet stays, rehab, dressings etc.

My dog is in the vets now with suspected neurological issues. Best case scenario we're looking at around £4k, worst case around £10k. Like you, we now put money aside for potential vet bills as having the horse insured, I felt, just made them more cavalier with how they assessed him as they didn't focus on a specific area and it did us no good in the end. He was only diagnosed once the insurance money ran out and they focused on the specific areas I had said were a concern to keep remaining costs down. The price of vet fees puts them out of range of lots of people even with insurance cover. Even if you have a £5k limit it's still pretty hard to find an additional £5k unexpectedly if your pet's treatment gets to the £10k mark.

I work in pharmacy and we often get people in buying medication for pets. We aren't allowed to sell it but it's quite obvious when they ask us how to work out the dose for an adult that weighs 6kg one patient that does it often is a vet herself!

@TescoValue I was prescribed aspirin for an old horse by the vet but they specifically told me to get it from the pharmacy as it was cheaper than from them. They did work out the dosage beforehand, though!

I would agree with OP. I think you need to ask lots of questions, eg, why the vet thinks a particular treatment would be beneficial, and don't be embarrassed to ask how much. There are vast differences in costs between vet practices including on medications. I have often wondered why the insurance companies don't crack down on that.

It isn't cheap to own a pet. Our insurance covers my dog for up to £7500 per year. If he needs his hips or elbows done I'll have to pray that he doesn't require any more expensive treatment for anything else that year!

I think the issue is more that we are unused to seeing medical bills for humans in this country. It ain't cheap.

Sorry, £7000, not 7500...

I think when they do a cat scan on an animal they need to bring in a mobile unit. The vet I use is one of the only pet hospitals in the country and I have seen the big scanning truck in the car park. I can't imagine a practice being able to support the cost of having one full time.

I noticed a huge difference in attitude between self pay and insured. My insured cat suddenly needed a scan of his bladder for simple urine infection (£100+ sedation costs). Another time a cat needed an operation and I was self pay they talked everything through with me and kept diagnostic tests to a minimum to keep costs down.

I have found the vets more business like and more expensive over the past few years trying to sell you loads of things you don't need.

Always look around when you can for what they recommend, I've found the prescription diet was about half the price online, and similarly simple things like paste for hairballs and flea and worm treatments.

I was told by a vet once to buy piriton when my kitten caught a bee in his mouth, the chemist refused to sell it when I said it was for the cat and the vet had told me what dose to give but she eventually gave in and gave me it.

Just been to the vets to get my Ddog assessed for a tooth removal...£555 !!!!! Last dig (now passed) had 9 removed for £380 ( she was a rescue dog and was very badly treated). It was clear that the vet was trying to sell a payment plan (isea close brothers loan). I told them where to get off. Another vet quoted £250 for the same procedure...guess which got my business?