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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder what drives racism?

25 replies

malificent7 · 21/01/2019 15:05

And is it on rhe rise?
I dont get it tbh...dd is mixed race and im teaching her to be proud.
Why is the far right on the rise? What drives racism?

Is it...
Fear of other, tribalism, protecting one's own culture/ religion or sheer ignorance?

As an ex colony i do wonder why we give other nationalities such a hard time. In an increasingly small world, why does racism persist?

OP posts:
Pachyderm1 · 21/01/2019 15:10

Fear, narrow mindedness, a misplaced sense of pride (often from people who have no skills or achievements they can actually be proud of), lack of understanding, arrogance, ignorance, selfishness etc etc etc. A tangled web of nothing good...!

Laiste · 21/01/2019 15:11

I imagine it's different for each individual.

In my mother's case it's a big dose of ignorance mixed in with a fear of 'other'. A dollop of 'what i am is right and normal and cosy and therefore i'm a bit superior' and 'what they are is wrong and different and i don't understand it and don't need to'.

badlydrawnperson · 21/01/2019 15:12

YANBU to wonder - but I suspect the answers are really complex and it doesn't take long before you run into idealogical and political questions that are in themselves highly divisive.

Ultramic · 21/01/2019 15:19

Ignorance, fear, lack of intregation, small mindedness and learned behaviours from parents/peers.

Hadjab · 21/01/2019 15:20

Ignorance is only an excuse if you live under a rock. In this day and age, there really is no excuse - it costs nothing to educate yourself.

Seline · 21/01/2019 15:22

Fear of the unknown mixed with a society that pushes conformity over praise of the individual.

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking · 21/01/2019 15:25

As an ex colony i do wonder why we give other nationalities such a hard time

We?

We weren't a colony.

Having workied in multicultural organisations all my life, here are some examples from daily life in the office - the Turk wont speak to the Greek cypriot; the Indians have caste issues, Northern and Southern Irish wont speak to each other; West Indians wont talk to West Africans, and so forth I found the English talked to every one and there was very little racism from that quarter.

But of course you're talking about the rise of the far right and nationalism. If you've had a poor education, not many opportunities, you look for someone to blame. People like Tommy Robinson, Jaida Fransen, Paul Golding latch onto that, it's so easy to blame someone else for using an opportunity that was denied to you or you cant access.

On the otherhand, its interesting why pale skin is valued through nearly all cultures. It would be good to have an open and frank discussion without someone stuffing non existent words in mouths and making wild assumptions

www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/might-of-white-skin-whitening-cream-pale-colour-lighter-dark-is-beautiful-bollywood-cosmetics-a7910416.html

In India, these were codified in the caste system, the ancient Hindu classification in which birth determined occupation and social stratum. At the top, Brahmins were priests and intellectuals. At the bottom, outcastes were confined to the least-desired jobs, such as latrine cleaners. Bhatia says caste may have been to do with more than occupation: the darker you looked, the lower your place in the social hierarchy.

This preference for fair skin was perpetuated and strongly reinforced by colonialism, not just in India but in dozens of countries where a European power established its dominance. It’s the idea that the ruler is fair-skinned, says Emmanuel. “All around the world, it was a fact that the rich could stay indoors versus the poor who worked outside and were dark-skinned.”

The final wave of influence is modern-day globalisation. “There is an interesting whiteness travelling from the US to malls [in other countries] featuring white models,” Bhatia tells me. “You can trace a line from colonialism, post-colonialism and globalisation.” Western beauty ideals, including fair skin, predominate worldwide. And with these ideals come products to service them.

In Nigeria, 77 per cent of the country’s women use skin-lightening agents, compared with 59 per cent in Togo and 27 per cent in Senegal. But the largest and fastest-growing markets are in the Asia-Pacific region.

In India, a typical supermarket will have a wall of personal care products featuring “whitening” moisturiser or “lightening” body creams from recognisable brands.

MrsTerryPratcett · 21/01/2019 15:27

Blame.

"My life is shit and I need to blame someone." I either don't understand power and control or I read media that actively tries to make me ignore it. So I blame the Black person next to me, for my lack of job/money/house/security rather than the people in power with money who actively tried to make sure I can't get those things.

Which is why if you are a nasty capitalist arse, it's really important to destroy education and the labour movement. Critical thinking, understanding class analysis , and thinking of other workers as your brothers and sisters is bad for the divisive politics you need to make another billion.

Divide and conquer.

Seline · 21/01/2019 15:29

MrsTerryPratcett 👏🏻

DustyMaiden · 21/01/2019 15:30

Ignorance, fake news. Immigrants get new houses and £1k a day in benefits.

Lushlemming · 21/01/2019 15:36

Well it depends on what you mean by racism.

The definition of racism is "The belief that people will always exhibit particular characteristics and traits which are specific to their ethnic origin"

However it can also include the catchall of derogatory comments and discrimination.

Some people (most I think) have no understanding of the definition and use the word as a stick to beat into submission anybody who disagrees with them, about anything.

Real racism, is different to "casual" racism.

Most people are put on trial by social media and forums just like this. Even for relatively innocuous remarks, some people will go out of their way to take offence at the slightest word.

I am mixed race, I look full blooded Asian, although my father was Canadian and my mother second generation Philippines.

I can't work up the energy to care, much less get offended everytime I get asked "where are you from originally" or "oh, thats an unusual name". Because the above isn't racism, it's just normal human interaction. But apparently asking about the specifics of someone's origin makes you second cousin the leader of the KKK.

Mostly I think, racism, real racism, stems from a fear of change. Xenophobia is more common, but gets confused for racism I think.

I get embarrassed when people take offence on my behalf, like saying "you can't ask her that" when people ask about my origins. It pisses me off to be honest.

I just wish people would understand and educate themselves about real racism and stop being so fucking afraid of "offending" people. In my experience, more white people worry about racism than minorities do.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 21/01/2019 15:58

What Mrs TP said.

It's a fear of catching poor and a need for some folk to feel morally and intellectually superior to others.

Laiste · 21/01/2019 16:01

The difference between real racism and casual racism is hard to grasp though. People like my mother are genuinely surprised when ''that Asian woman in the post office'' turns out to be ''such a nice person!'' Hmm And she's actually smug about the fact! Is this 'casual' racism?

User758172 · 21/01/2019 16:05

But why teach her to be proud of her skin colour? Surely that’s perpetuating the problem of racism.

I’m not proud of my skin colour. It just is. I had no hand in it. No colour is better than any other or something to be proud of.

MrsTerryPratcett · 21/01/2019 16:21

I’m not proud of my skin colour. It just is.

This is where it gets complicated. I'm white and blonde and growing up every princess and model and 'beautiful woman' looked like me. So pride wasn't taught but it was installed.

If you want to know if you are really 'colour blind' and don't associate race with positive/negative traits, try an implicit association test. Very interesting.

user1489792710 · 21/01/2019 16:29

@Lushlemming agree with your comments. I get asked where I'm originally from most days at work. I've never taken offence...it's normal human curiosity I think. I'd probably ask a white person the same if they were in my home country.

MrsTerryPratcett · 21/01/2019 16:30

implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

notquitethesame · 21/01/2019 16:32

I think the main drivers currently in the UK are fear of 'other' combined with the desire to either blame someone else for your own situation or justify doing nothing about the difficult situation other people are in. Some branches of the media and some politicians feed these fears/desires for their own benefit.

User758172 · 21/01/2019 16:32

I'm white and blonde and growing up every princess and model and 'beautiful woman' looked like me

I don’t quite understand why that would instill a sense of pride in you though. They were nothing to do with you. I don’t feel a kinship or association with people based on my skin colour. It’s coincidental Confused

MrsTerryPratcett · 21/01/2019 16:34

Try the implicit bias test Mrs

User758172 · 21/01/2019 16:36

I think the main drivers currently in the UK are fear of 'other' combined with the desire to either blame someone else for your own situation

I highly dislike the blame culture we live in now, but also the identity politics game we seem to be playing. It’s so incredibly divisive.

wink1970 · 21/01/2019 16:41

Fear & ignorance (both willful and just 'not understanding')

I do know someone who is racist towards a particular African nation and anyone who comes from it, borne from a bad experience at the hands of someone from there, and he will not be persuaded otherwise that they are not all 'bad uns'. He has good friends from all over the world but will cross the road to avoid shaking the hand of someone from that nation. But I would imagine that's 0.000001% of all racism. (probably not helpful example)

Bombardier25966 · 21/01/2019 16:41

Austerity has played a big part in the rise of racism in recent years, and a concerted effort from the government and their favoured media outlets to play us off against each other. And it's not just racism.

Divide and conquer.

malificent7 · 21/01/2019 16:47

I never said i was teaching her to be pdoud of her skin colour. She has olive skin and is greek/ iranian/ english/ welsh Not black. Im teaching her to be proud of being a mixture of different cultural heritages. Talking to her about Greece and Iran is part of this.

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Fashionista101 · 21/01/2019 21:00

Do you know I think my dog is racist. Goes bonkers when it sees black people - v.weird.

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