Still no completion date?!

[Waytooearly]

Hi all,

Genuinely asking whether I'm being unreasonable. I've never bought a property before.

I'm buying a flat, no chain on either side, shared ownership (I've been found eligible) I've got deposit and mortgage offer, all good from my end.

The original estimated completion date was 17th Jan. Unfortunately my landlord wants to rent to his daughter so I am moving out this weekend. Putting my things into storage and found a nice cheap airbnb for a month near my work.

For the last three weeks I've been emailing EA and my sols saying, 'Right, so if we're not completing on 17th Jan what's the plan?'

I've asked them to ask the vendor what the estimated time frame is and they just... haven't.

According to copied correspondence from my sols the vendors need to provide a contract and transfer, lease, a Deed of Covenant, and some information bits on the PIF. I don't see how these are taking months to obtain.

I've finally lost patience and emailed my sols, saying in the absence of any other info I need to assume that the vendor isn't ready to sell. I asked her (again) to get a time frame from the vendor.

I have an appointment to view another flat in the same building,this Wednesday. Also no chain. Same price.

I know that I would be going back to square one with new place (and would lose search fees) but my gut is telling me something isn't right.

My questions:

1. Would you also assume that several weeks' delay in getting basic docs indicates a problem on the vendor's side? (If there is a reasonable explanation no one's shared it.)

1. If the alternate flat is fine, can I make an offer with a specified term that we complete in a month?

Thanks if you've read all that.

I am sorry you're having such a rubbish amount of delay OP, I hope it gets sorted out soon.

OP, is the flat under shared ownership at the moment? Because it will be the HA who will be coming up with some of the paperwork and that might be the delay.

Delays are part and parcel of buying and selling I'm afraid. There are some ways to speed the process up. You need to be nice, ask lots of questions and write down the name/date/time of everyone you speak to.

You should call everyone you're allowed to:
Your solicitors
The estate agent
Your mortgage company
The housing association

You can't speak to the vendors or their solicitors. You can ask for another visit to measure for curtains, and speak very nicely to the vendor then.

Write a list of everything that needs to happen and where each thing is up to.

Eg: If your solicitor says you still need to receive and sign off on the PIF, you can ask when it was sent to the vendor to complete. The estate agent does that bit, so call them. When did they receive it back? When was it sent on to the vendors solicitor? When did they send it to yours? When did they send it out to you?

Somewhere within that chain, the PIF is stuck. Find the PIF and move it along. If you are told the vendor posted it back to Estate Agent yesterday, call the EA. And keep calling. If 3 days pass, ask the EA why they haven't chased the vendor already.

Do this with every part of the process, come back to the lovely MNers on the property boards and they will guide you on what questions to ask next. Micro manage in an annoying but really friendly way, overly friendly, as being micro managed will piss them off. But you can shave off a good 3-4 weeks by doing this.

Have all your 'facts' written down. If Julie told you the searches were submitted on 15/1 and you speak to Bob who says you are still waiting for searches to come back, ask Bob when they were submitted. Triple check everything is being done when people are saying it is being done. Conveyancing is so time consuming and lengthy because of how many parties are involved. It's easy for someone who has forgotten to do something to blame it on another part of the chain. Detailed notes give you the opportunity to call them out on it if spotted and also let the people you're dealing with know you cannot be bullshitted.

Problems to anticipate:
You said the vendor is in a nursing home and the daughter moved out. Clearing possessions is one issue, but not one that will delay things too much. The vendor may no longer have the capacity to make financial decisions or sign legal documents. This may be why the PIF is delayed. If the daughter didn't already have power of attorney, it is then too late get it. They will need to get a Court if Protection Deputyship to sign any of the documents, you can ask your solicitor if this is an issue.

Money can also be an issue in this situation. The above needs to be paid for before the sale of the property, along with some documents from the Housing Association in terms of lease and any covenants. There are some other documents to do with proof of no service charge arrears that can sometimes be requested. If the vendor doesn't have this money yet, or the daughter simply cannot access the funds to pay for it, the whole thing grinds to a halt. Depending on their own financial circumstances, you could be waiting for them to save up the money to pay for these things. If this is the case, you may be asked if you will pay the fee on their behalf and the purchase price would be adjusted accordingly. That is bad news and your solicitor has to ask you but should advise you not to. They are fees you can't recoup if the sale breaks down.

Once you know more about the vendors financial position, you should look in to the other flat in the building. Rather than ask for an 8 week deadline, ask in depth questions about the vendors position and motivation for selling. Not why they're selling, but how keen are they to get the deal done.

Best of luck, keep cool and calm. You will get to the end of this. Don't let the process ruin how you feel about your first home.

We just did a part-ex in 6 weeks with Xmas towards the end - I think we possibly could have done it in 5n

I called my solicitor daily to check in and get updates. Any email I sent was followed up by a phone call a couple of hours later "what are your thoughts on my email". Get on thier case, you're paying them a lot of money, they are working for you and ignoring your emails is terrible service.

We bought our house from a friend, chain of only 3 people (first time buyer bought our house - us - friend) and it took 7 months

It is fucking ridiculous how long it takes to buy a house in England.

Flats take longer than houses.

You can speak to the seller, although they don't have to.

Why do flats take longer?

Flats take longer because they are leasehold. And the leasehold information comes from the freeholders who have no incentive to be quick.

I would anticipate that the leasehold would take six weeks to provide information once solicitors have requested it. Then their solicitor needs to look at it. Send it to yours. They need to look at it. Send it to you.

And given its full of stuff they will probably want two weeks at least between exchange and completion.

You need to ask your solicitor what is outstanding and what is the earliest date they think exchange can be

There is no reason, in the circumstances explained above (no chain, mortgage offer in place etc) couldn't actually complete within 6 weeks - generally it's down to the Solicitors arsing around & trying to justify their fees which holds it up.
Don't bother with the EA now, just pester your solicitor constantly, it's the only way.

I found a frank conversation with my solicitor and the estate agents, twice a week, helped shift things along. If you have a firm deadline, eg the date your Airbnb runs out, then tell them that and push for completion by that date.
If you aren't too fussed by the flat, you could threaten to pull out if future paperwork etc is delayed, but pulling out means starting the whole bloody process again on another property. You have my sympathies!

stinkypoo have you done conveyancing professionally? Because I can assure you that leaseholds do take longer than 6 weeks as a matter of course because there is so much stuff to go through.

And solicitors don't delay to justify their fees. Fees are not particularly high given the work involved. Most people have fees targets so are trying to push files through as quickly as possible.

I'd hassle the EA. They can speak to all parties to find out what is going on.

Stuff such as what?

I've asked my sols, and here, and all I have seen is that the original lease needs to be obtained and that I need to take it over. This is a week's worth of work, tops.

My first flat was shared ownership through keyworker housing, I hate to say this but when I sold it was a nightmare, largely held up by the HA and their solicitor bring so show and incompetent, my poor buyer was in the same position as you and he was great, jumped through every hoop they asked, his offer was accepted in the January and we all finally moved in the November. I know that's not what you want to hear. We were communicating effectively and both pushing it through, we nearly lost the house we were buying it took so long. If the other flat of shared ownership you will find it takes as long. When I bought, I was already living there and renting it (rent to buy scheme) no other parties involved at all and it took six and a half months.

Thanks for sharing.

I have emailed the HA directly and provided my mortgage offer (though I'm assuming my sol sent it when I first got it). I also said, 'I understand that vendor's sols asked you for the following documents a month ago...'

One crazy idea: if we can't complete in any timely way, can I ask to sublet the flat while we're all waiting? I mean, I have to rent somewhere and they probably would be happy to get money. It seems silly to be renting a place around the corner while the flat is empty.

If you are waiting for documentation to come in from the freeholder/managing agents/sellers Solicitors, what is the purpose of hounding your Solicitor? FYI Solicitors get a fraction of the costs Estate Agents do for their commission and for doing sweet FA. So yes I would be pestering the Estate Agents to do some work. Another thing to think about is when you are constantly emailing/phoning your Solicitor daily, it stops them from working on your file and others too. Not a good idea. When you come to sell you want to be able to do so quickly without recourse and if you have a defective lease you won’t be able to do so. Do you want the transaction to go through quickly or thoroughly? The op is now in a precarious position of having to move out of her existing property without a fixed completion date on the flat, but that is not your Solicitor’s fault.

-They have to read through the lease and will have questions about it which the seller's solicitors or the HA have to reply to.
-The seller's pack from the HA has to be checked. Again, there are invariably questions.
-HA will often have forms you need to complete.
-Your mortgage offer has to be sent to the HA by your solicitors for formal approval (this is a shared ownership thing).
-Your solicitors have to check the lease against your lender's requirements. These are more complicated for SO.
-The standard information forms will often result in questions.

• Your local authority search will probably take a few weeks to come back. All searches then need to be checked.

Are you using any form of Help to Buy funding?

OK, thanks for sharing.

I understand about the point of diminishing returns of hounding. I am a lawyer myself (different fields) and on a couple of occasions I've had to tell a client, 'Okay, I can either work on your case right now or I can have another long conversation with you.'

But then on the other hand I always give my clients realistic time scales so they know where they stand.

What do you think about asking to move in as a sublet?

Waytooearly, it’s quite hard to give timescales without all the required documentation in your possession. They could pluck a date out of thin air if that makes you happy but then it’s giving you false hope and the strong possibility of being let down. I don’t think they would advise to sub-let, some Leases don’t allow this. You need to have a backup plan, how long can you stay at the airb&b for?

I suppose the thing with conveyancing is we are gathering information from third parties and they can often be slow/give a nonsensical response that requires further digging.

Subletting of a shared ownership property is not allowed.

Okay, thanks again.

It's been unfortunate that my current place gave me notice.

However it's weird that the coneyancing sol gave me an estimated completion date of 17th Jan (I knew that wasn't set in stone, more like a goal, I get it). And then when I told them I had to leave current place on 22nd Jan, EA and my sol were all 'Yeah, we'll see what we can do.' And nothing.

Not one of the (many) professionals involved have advised that the whole process could take months.

I will talk to my sol on Monday and just see what she says.

The HA has the discretion to allow a sublet. I can ask, especially if I tell them that otherwise I am withdrawing.

I called my solicitor daily to check in and get updates. Any email I sent was followed up by a phone call a couple of hours later "what are your thoughts on my email". Get on thier case, you're paying them a lot of money, they are working for you and ignoring your emails is terrible service

Daily (and more than once!) is utterly ridiculous.

Quite JacquesHammer. Attitudes like that remind me why I'm glad I no longer deal directly with clients.

I one told a very demanding client that I had blocked off time to do a particular document for his case from 3-5 on Friday. I told him I'd be sure to get it done by 5:00 so it could go out in that day's post.

He came in all blustery at 4:00. 'I demand to see Waytooearly!'. The receptionist said I was in a meeting (actually trying to get his work done) but he hung around being an arse until finally I said, 'Fine!', stopped what I was doing, and came down to meet with him.

He went off for a half hour saying it really needed to get done today and reminding me that I had promised to do it for him today.

I said, 'Yeah you remember I told you I'd blocked off a chunk of time to get it done for you before five. Right now it's sitting on my desk not being worked on because I am doing this. Would you rather I keep sitting here talking with you or would you like me to go work on it? '

It's the only time I really got arsey with a client but I'd had it with him.