AIBU to think my daughter is ignoring alarm bells?

[Buttercreamissuper]

Hi all

DD has been with her fiancé for 5 years. They’re both mid twenties and have been living together for a couple of years.

The things I am concerned and scared about have been building up for a while but she cannot accept that some of his attitudes and actions are a worry. She says they’re happy most of the time and that’s what counts. I am worried about her future after seeing and hearing some of the things she’s told me.

1- on Facebook, he shared an article about a man who’d attacked his pregnant wife and ended up in prison.
He then wrote something along the lines of ‘I hate how it’s always the man in trouble. I think his wife was abusing him too but he’s not telling the police so he doesn’t get her in trouble’.
I was absolutely disgusted by this.

2- he and DD have agreed that he will work and she will stay at home when/if they have children which in itself is ok.
However, he has said to DD that should they marry and divorce one day, they will not be splitting assets equally if he can help it.
He says that looking after the home and children does not equate to deserving 50% of everything in a divorce. He is however still keen that she stays at home!

3- he messages women from work and does not hide this or the messages. DD has seen them and they’re work related so she has no worries about cheating.
However, whenever DD gets a message on her phone from me or anyone else, he apparently ‘jokingly’ says that he hopes it’s not a man because he wouldn’t like that as DD ‘would definitely cheat’. DD has no history of cheating as far as I’m aware though some of his own past actions have been questionable....

4- another Facebook one. He shared an article about a multi millionaire having to pay thousands in child maintenance per month.
He argued that this was unfair that the multi millionaire would have to hand over thousands of dollars to his ex for their child.
DD told me she criticised this view and said that the father was rich enough to fund a good lifestyle for his child and he has a responsibility. Her fiancé said that it was unfair and that the millionaire who makes millions every year shouldn’t have to pay more than any other average joe! He said that the mans ex was obviously grabbing money to fund her own lifestyle.

5- when they first started living together, she told me that they had an argument which resulted in him warning her to ‘keep her mouth shut or else’ while raising his arm to punch her.

Please help me advise her. She won’t listen to me and I’m seriously concerned about her emotional, physical and financial welfare going forward. I’ve tried so hard to make her see sense but it’s not working. She thinks she has found ‘the one’.

Probation officer here - can honestly say what you have written rings massive alarm bells. Sorry to say. Sadly it is difficult to get someone in your DDs position to see those alarm bells too. Controlling men are often effective at what they do either through excess charm at key times, isolation or other emotional abuse. Support and baby steps is needed and seek advice quietly from a domestic abuse charity such as Oasis. I deal mostly with male perpetrators so am underskilled in supporting victims or i would offer more guidance.

What you have written sounds very indicative of male privilege views, beliefs which indicate massive gender imbalance and underlying beliefs that your DD is not to be trusted and deserves less respect. None of this bodes well. I would also suggest that if this is what he shares then what does he believe that he currently keeps to himself.

Tread carefully or you may push your DD into becoming defensive of him.

That does sound scary. I can understand why you are worried. Make sure she knows she can always come home to live with you.

Thanks both for your responses!

DD and I have a very close relationship so she knows she can always come home if she needs to!
I just wonder how far she’ll let it escalate before she faces the reality...by which point it may be too late.

Wow I can't believe he has spelled out to her how badly he is going to treat her and she is still with him.

I would show her the many stories on here of women who give up work and don't marry (or marry and have partners that hide their income) and then when the inevitable split happens they spend the rest of their life struggling. No practical or financial help with children and just enough contact with ex to feel permanently harassed. No assets. No earning power as they have been out of work for so long and can't find flexible hours etc.

You may not be able to stop her being with him but you can point out sensible financial decisions (eg both jointly own the home, make sure she is given free access to joint money so isn't financially abused, keep up with work part time even if very low hours, to keep her contacts etc) so that if the shit does hit the fan then she won't struggle as much.

Could you show her some literature on abuse (women's aid / freedom program is mentioned a lot on here) so she could spot the signsore easily or do you think that's likely to backfire?

Hi Butter. I have a DD who met her partner at 18. They lived with his parents. He didn't work, had no qualifications, thought a woman's job was to support her man (who had to make no effort in any direction) and if she spoke to other men he attacked her physically (once for talking to a childhood friend who was openly gay). On such occasions, she'd move back home, only to move back out because she was so much in love. I have shown her the websites, asked her to do the quizzes re control and abuse, all to no avail.

3 things: first he has changed a bit. She got pregnant and they moved in with us and we had a different way of life. It was really hard for the 2 years they were with me but I was able to protect her a bit, and to model a different way to be, and to parent, than he was used to. Still financially controlling, but 6 years on he;s got a steady job and is starting to feel proud of himself. They also have 2 children now, and the physical abuse is history (which is good).

Second, I realised pretty early on that he would, if he could, divide and rule, and that, if I forced the issue, she would pick him over anyone else, every time. I have tried to ensure she knows I am always here, am a big supporter of hers, and I won't judge. That way, she has an exit if she chooses.

Third, it's her life to lead. I would not contemplate her life. There is no financial security, they live hand to mouth as both have low paid jobs-for many many reasons, she isn't living the life I thought she would live. But I can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do, I think all I can do is make sure that IF the pieces need picking up, she knows where to come. I understand your concerns and your fears, I really do. The only thing I've found is joy in the unexpected grandchildren and good distractions when I need them!

Thank you for sharing your experience Theoscargoesto! I am trying not to seem meddling which is why I’ve brought my concerns here rather than taking them to my DD! It’s just so hard to be on the outside looking in

If her friend came to DD and said that her BF had said those things, what advice would DD give the friend?
This isn’t normal behaviour. It’s power play and he’s slowing picking away at her. Predicting she would cheat and being worried about her phone is odd and must be annoying for her. The equality thing rings massive alarm bells. Have they set a date for the wedding yet?
Can you encourage your DD to have outside interests? Maybe something you can do together? Find a beginners running club, or regularly go for a walk twice a week, get her spending time away from him.

Try not to be seen as constantly beating the drum about him. She will see it as nagging and push you away. Just continue to be supportive but make sure she knows she has you

Is there any way that you could get her to read some of the threads here ?
The ones where a woman gets involved with a coercive controlling financially abusive man and the inevitable result ?

I don't know why men like this even get married if they are so concerned about assest splits. And they obviously don't have anything to outrageous to split in the first place or else there would be a prenup in place anyway.

I would advise your daughter (because you can't tell her to leave him no matter how you feel) to at least have a serious conversation about marriage with him and if it's what he really wants and to have a very long engagement.

OP I've been there, It's horrible Lots of women here recommend the Lundy Bancroft book - maybe you could leave it lying around?

The thing you're doing right is keeping the lines of communication open. She's telling you stuff, maybe hiding more, but you're talking, that's so important. Friends reassured me that DD would come back, and she did. Keep channelling the self worth I'm sure you've already instilled in her and she'll be fine. What a lovely mum you are.

OP it's warning bells all round

If your DD doesn't feel strongly enough that she deserves better, perhaps she might change her mind if she thinks of her future children. Would she really like him as their father, behaving similarly with suspicion, control and threats?

Huge red flags. I'd be very concerned.

Do you know any of her mates.Can you talk to them on the quiet so she doesn’t know it has come from you.Maybe she will isten to them

I sincerely hope your daughter packs him up before too long. Massive alarm bells! Not much you can do except give her support and encourage her to feel good about herself because she is worth much more.

YANBU at all. I'm not sure what you can do? I agree with pp in keeping a close eye and letting her know you will help her and support her if she needs to leave him.

It is a constant source of horrified amazement how much rubbish some women take from abusive men. I have seen one side with the abusive man when he attacked her family member.
Maybe I am short tempered by I would not hang around with such abuse going on aimed at me. This is not an idle statement I have actually taken the necessary action.
OP this is only going to drag your DD down and make her believe that she is not worthy of more. Women's Aid will say that she DD has to come to the decision herself but perhaps they could give you helpful hints on how to cope. I think they realise now that the effects go right through the family

I really hope she gets out before she’s tied to him with a baby.

Ex Police here. @SquirrelsLostNut post is excellent in terms of absolutely confirming what his behaviours are.

'5- when they first started living together, she told me that they had an argument which resulted in him warning her to ‘keep her mouth shut or else’ while raising his arm to punch her.'

Everything you've written raises red flags but the incident above especially concerns me. You said they've lived together for 2 years and this was at the beginning of that - my experience is that DV escalates, are you certain sure there is no physical abuse right now? What did she say about that incident and also, has she a history of abuse (violent Father, even being a victim of bullying) that would have prompted her to just accept that?

Agree re keeping the lines of communication but know that you could report him if he was violent, it doesn't have to be the victim per se (tho clearly that could compromise those lines of communication).

@Theoscargoesto What utter rubbish! Physical abuse is never history - he WILL do it again. You mark my words. Just needs something to wind him up enough....

Bizarre coincidence - but I’m listening to this right now this second...

itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/48-expert-on-domestic-violence/id1322200189?i=1000420881330&mt=2

Some fantastic advice. You’re right to be concerned. Your poor DD

Op he sounds awful, I know she is an adult and can make her own decisions, but that sounds like a domestic abuse situation just waiting to happen, it has all the warning signs and red flags screaming out...

He doesn't love her, he's admitted if they split he won't make sure she gets equal assets and the comment about the child support is probably a taster of what he would be like if they split (probably would resent paying it and try to get out of it)

The fact that he publically sided on Facebook with a man who ended up in jail for attacking his pregnant partner shows his mindset...a normal person would see the woman as the victim...he sees the abuser as the victim...just like he would see himself as a victim if he abused your daughter,

The comments about how your daughter would cheat, is classic abuser talk to control her, it's to wear her down and grind down her self esteem and make him out to be the victim until she parent even glance at a man incase she is accused...

The fact that he has threatened her before with raised fist shows what he is capable of...

You need to get family, and her friends, and write all this out in a list so she can see it in black and white (so she can see how bad it looks )..and get everyone she trusts to try and convince her to leave him, she can't be happy with him...how could anybody be happy with someone like that...

Just did quick google and found this
www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk/support-a-friend-or-family-member-experiencing-domestic-violence.aspx

Here's what I did in a similar situation.

Make a list of the worrying things dd has told you. call women's aid and share the list with them. write down their response and show it to dd.

In our case, seeing that an outside agency would classify the relationship as abusive (despite the fact that he hadn't hit her yet) was enough to get the ball rolling. It took a while but she did leave him.