To think it’s easier to want open boarders if you’re privileged?

[Theselfishsister]

Having an ongoing conflict with my sister regarding refugees, she’s very ‘let everyone in’ I would say I’m somewhere in the middle.

She’s given up spare bedrooms to refugees, spends weekends in Calais helping them and is posting everywhere on SM about letting them all in. As well as attending protests regularly for the last 4 years or so.

What strikes me is that her and her other friends going to all of the events are white, MC (although she is by marriage, we grew up very WC) and live incredibly comfortably. She’s a SAHM and her husband owns his own company, they have never needed benefits or social housing and her children are privately educated with all of them receiving private medical care.

A massive increase in people here are unlikely to ever have much affect on her life, she won’t have to fight for jobs or wait for a house or deal with benefit cuts when too much is paid out, as well as the increase in waits for Medical care and school admissions. Whereas for someone like me, this is obviously a more worrying factor and the thought of just opening our borders to everyone does scare me. As much as I would love to be able to take every person fleeing a great life, it just causes me worry and I don’t think I could support completely open boarders.

She obviously just thinks I’m a selfish heartless bitch for not protesting to remove our borders or similar. When I asked why she let refugees sleep in her spare rooms but never the homeless man on the road behind her (who’s been in the same spot since she moved there 5 years ago!) she called me a racist!

So AIBU to think it’s easier to want open boarders if you’re privileged or am I just a selfish cow?

A Polish economic migrant will integrate and contribute much more quickly than a refugee. Brexit really was a protest vote re austerity. Closed borders (re the EU) will make no real difference as Eastern Europeans seem to contribute to the economy very quickly.

It's hard, in the face of austerity, to watch already underfunded services being shared still further. Not many refugees will not need a wide range of services, at least initially.

Why, genuinely, is there an austerity policy. So much of it doesn't even make economic sense never mind moral sense.

Surely immigrants would benefit the poor more than the rich? I can think of the examples off the top of my head-
Housing (there is a massive housing need we need Polish builders to build them as there isn't enough British builders to meet demand

As I have pointed out upthread ATM with our education system it is designed to be racist against British born English speaking students.

Ds is in a class of 30 studying one of the trades that there is apparently a shortage of.
Granted some will not pass the year but at least 15 will.

Of those 15 only 1 ATM has both his English and Maths GCSE.

This means that next year if none of the other 14 get their missing GCSE English or Maths only 1 will be able to go on to the next year and qualify despite being able to do the course.
However we then say it is fine to employ a non English speaking person because he has qualified but if they are from abroad they don't need the English and Maths equivalent qualification as well.

Food - without immigrants the cost of food would go up as there would be a shortage of people to pick the cabbages

Friends were very upset when they weren't able to do the fruit picking as it really helped with their finances. I don't think there would be a shortage.
Yes prices would be higher but it is a price to pay to stop the "modern day slavery" that exists around these sort of practice.

Whilst the current overseas workers might not be under any obligation to stay in the job the pay is terrible but their living conditions are probably equally as bad
Care homes - we need immigrants to provide care for the elderly
It's easy to say the British unemployed should do these jobs but many wont/can't for a variety of reasons

How do you know they won't.

Friends have flocked to a local company now the non English speaking owners and previous employees have gone back to their own country after the referendum.

"As I have pointed out upthread ATM with our education system it is designed to be racist against British born English speaking students."

Of course it isn't! What a load of dribble.

"However we then say it is fine to employ a non English speaking person because he has qualified but if they are from abroad they don't need the English and Maths equivalent qualification as well."

Except that they have the advanced level that is required to gain employment not go on to study for the advanced level, which means they have met standards in literacy and numeracy.

There was a shortage of fruit and veg pickers this year, despite above minimum wage pay rates, so your " I don't think there will be a shortage" point is bunkum.

Rural areas, like the oft mentioned Boston, tend to have very low unemployment rates far below the national average.

Except that they have the advanced level that is required to gain employment not go on to study for the advanced level, which means they have met standards in literacy and numeracy

This again is not true as I have already pointed out upthread.
Ds is able to continue his study abroad without any other qualifications. Then come back to the UK with the relevant qualification

You don’t need any English or Maths qualifications in other countries.

There was a shortage of fruit and veg pickers this year, despite above minimum wage pay rates, so your " I don't think there will be a shortage" point is bunkum

Are you sure people realise that British people can now apply.

First time I have heard that it is now open to British people.

People went from cities to the rural areas to pick fruit and veg it was like a holiday.

Just because people didn’t live in the area doesn’t mean stuff didn’t get picked

"You don’t need any English or Maths qualifications in other countries."

You may need other entry requirements though, which anyone with the higher level qualifications must have passed.

British people could always apply for jobs on farms picking, anecdotal nonsense not withstanding.

People will not be going on "holiday" to work picking fruit in the fields from cities, that sort of thing ended decades ago and the farming industry has moved on substantially in terms of times needed and the level of work.

Basically no, the UK is not racist against British youths, that's a ridiculous point to make.

The UK education system is not racist towards British born students

not have the same issues with schools, competition for housing, over subscribed GP surgery’s

Setting people against each other in the fight to access these is surely a problem with austerity rather than of immigrants. Possibly compounded with lack of planning.

Or what am I missing ?

The Tabloid newspapers of course love to stoke the fires

Are you sure people realise that British people can now apply

So until now British people were not allowed to apply for jobs?

The main problem is austerity, yes.
However when you’re the one in that situation, sitting around and saying ‘the UK is so wealthy, let them all in so they can use our amazing services’ isn’t that easy.
It’s even more difficult when you’re in an area that’s been completely changed by large scale immigration.
If you’re one of the 1.2million people on the social housing waiting list, or one of the 79,000 people in temporary accommodation because there is nowhere for you and your family to live, or an ex soldier sleeping on the street because your country used you and then abandoned you with PTSD, you’re not going to see the UK as a great place with enough services and money to share around in order to be able to support mass immigration.

ALl of those problems are to do with the UK governements, not "mass immigration".

Even then immigrants make up only 13% of the population.

Blaming immigration for these issues is an easy way out, a simple answer to complex problems which allows people to justify their iniquitous prejudices.

I’m by no means blaming immigration for the issues. But it’s either extreme niavity or cushioned privilidge if you think that allowing anyone who wants too to come in will not stretch already stretched services, further.

The problems with public services, lack of housing, etc aren't the fault of mass immigration but it's certainly contributing considerably. And anyone who hasn't got their head stuck in the sand can see that things are going to get a lot worse if it's not controlled soon.

I tend to agree with you Selfish.

Some refugees have seen their whole family killed in front of them. I'd say longer waiting lists in the NHS is a small price to pay to help them

I have to disagree. As sad as their situation is, we need to mind our own first

aLittleCrisp
Tell that to the Rwandan man with machete marks in his skull at my British Citizenship ceremony

or the Christian Pakistani family who look relieved to be British

'Our own' what a nasty little expression.

Us and them. We are different to you. You are not as special as us. Divisive, separatist, nasty.

It's the language of bullies from the school yard to the political lobby.

Well, they aren't British. And unless someone has something valuable to add to this country, then I (and many like me), don't want them.

Their stories are incredibly sad but my interests and concerns are with British people, not immigrants.

You don't think refugees have something valuable to add to this country?

Well how about kindness and compassion?

I think there has been too many people coming here since the late 90s.

It needs to be better managed.

I feel people are so naive. I don’t even believe the various figures banded around about wage growth due to immigration. There is so much that is off grid. I suspect that the mass immigration under the EU in the last 15 years has hugely changed the way people are employed and paid in certain sectors.

And the overall economic “benefit” of migrants doesn’t flow through to local government. So services are affected greatly even though the government receives more tax (thank you very much).

Our local council is battling huge cuts again and these are to fall on libraries, schools and other public services. This area has also seen a large number of Eastern European immigrants - several in each class. They are lovely people who integrate well but the school is full to bursting. GP surgeries are full. Roads are full. Green belt land is being built on due to shortages. Even mental health provision for children - it’s broken.

We simply cannot take more immigrants. We have a moral duty to take our fair share of refugees but directly from affected countries.

13% is a massive chunk of the population.

And I agree with @ALittleCrisp. We can feel compassion for folks in bad situations and try to help as best we can, but not to our own detriment.

We don't take our fair share of refugees.

Let's add some facts to the mix

At the same time the net fiscal contributions of recent European immigrants from the rest of the EU totalled £15bn, with fiscal payments about 64% higher than transfers received. Immigrants from outside the EU countries made a net fiscal contribution of about £5.2 billion, thus paying into the system about 3% more than they took out. In contrast, over the same period, natives made an overall negative fiscal contribution of £616.5 billion. The net fiscal balance of overall immigration to the UK between 2001 and 2011 amounts therefore to a positive net contribution of about £25 billion

UCL department of Economics.

The only group who consistently put more into the economy than they take out are EU immigrants.

However, we are arguing about numbers and these numbers do change and are subject to scrutiny and discussion from both side. So consider this:

Most studies suggest that the fiscal impact of immigration in the UK is relatively small (amounting to less than 1% of the country's overall Gross Domestic Product)

That last quote is from fullfact.org.

Really less than 1% is not that big a deal.

We don't take our fair share of refugees

Who’s to define what’s fair?

The fiscal impact of immigration may be negligible, but the social and cultural aspects shouldn’t be overlooked.