Pleased that 4 mothers who took the government to court over universal credit won.

[birdsandroses]

I confess not an AIBU, posting for traffic. I am very happy that four brave single working mothers won their court case about the way UC is administered, although it still could go to appeal. UC has been discussed a few times on Mumsnet with some sharing how it is causing a lot of hardship for some. Some posters have questioned this, though not all.

I have read that due to the way payments fall working claimants can find that if they get two salary payments falling over one calendar month, such as paid early due to bank holiday. the UC part is stopped that month. Some on threads here have said that if the payments are taken over a whole year then financially they don’t lose out but obviously when you are on a very tight budget it can cause huge problems if you are not aware you will suddenly have no UC payment that month. However, others have said the claimant does lose out financially over the year as well as the difficulty of budgeting when one month there is no payment. I couldn’t work it out as much as I tried. However, newspaper articles today are saying that people can be out of pocket. One of the four women who brought the case to court was cited as being £500 down over the year. I have now gathered the reason they are out of pocket is they lose work allowances for any month they are wrongly classed as not receiving a salary.

The Children Poverty Action group gives full details here in their press release about the case. cpag.org.uk/content/high-court-finds-dwp-unlawful-universal-credit-assessments

Amber Rudd has today finally acknowledged problems with UC and is making some changes although many organisations say though welcome they are still not enough.

I have posted earlier on the thread. Due to my employers incompetence (local council) I was sanctioned in Dec as they didn’t get me on the payroll for 3 months and put it all through in one month despite paying me via emergency payments for 2 months. I appealed the sanction on 17th Dec and I’m still waiting for a decision as my employer hasn’t responded.

It also turns out they had lost my P45 and had been taxing me emergency tax. It all got paid back this month. So next month no UC. My mortgage company has threatened me with repossession. I don’t qualify for smi (help with mortgage interest payments) as I have an income and it’s a loan not a benefit anyhow. My area is not implementing the Mortgage Rescue Scheme. I am in the shit because the local government’s incompetence has led to the central government sanctioning me.

I’ve emailed my MP (lab) and am awaiting a response. I’ve previously worked for 21 years and only ever claimed 18 months of tax credits for childcare. I am at risk of losing my house and a home for my 7 yr old child because of UC and my employers fuck ups.

If I was in rented accommodation I’d be £500 a month better off. How is this fair or equitable? I didn’t ask to become unwell and I was unemployed for 3 weeks before I found a part time (25 hrs) job at a lower level of physical and mental stress (minimum wage). I’ve done my best to my abilities and I’ve been shafted every step of the way.

@birdsandroses Im afraid that some on here are all for it.

@Zofloramummy Blimey what a shit show Im so sorry

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/3479693-Changes-to-Pension-Credit

Thanks helenadove it is crap. Fortunately I’m wise now to the way it works and have stuck my ‘extra’ pay into savings to make up for next month. But I’ll still be hundreds of pounds down in entitlement over 4 months. I’m furious, scared and appalled in equal measure.

Why is it a victory for tenants that rent gets paid directly to landlords - it’s a zero sum game.

UC housing benefit -> tenant -> landlord

In fact that way is arguably more flexible if you need to borrow from your rent for a couple of days.

The problem only occurred for the terminally stupid who spent their rent payments completely.

Should they ever get a job (but they are probably too stupid for that) then they won’t find their employer paying their rent to the landlord on their behalf so they need to get a grip and live in the real world.

Sadly most wont learn until they end up homeless hut maybe it’s the short sharp shock they need but we’re too nanny to let that happen.

Rent gets paid before anything.

Yes unless you have £300 to live on for a month (me in sept) and a child. Then you pay for food.

I was talking to a friend yesterday who works nights at a supermarket and says there are queues at midnight on benefit day for people who go and spend it on fags and booze. I wouldn’t trust those people to pay their rent!

Should have said at the cash machine

But that’s their problem - if they choose to get fags why is it anyone else’s problem?

I never said it was. But if I was a landlord I’d prefer to get my money directly rather than risk my tennant being irresponsible.

The scenario relayed to me was of significant amounts of money spent on fags and booze not just a pack of 20 and a bottle of wine. And this is the same crowd regularly.

I agree that housing benefit basically pays the mortgage of the landlord. It is also difficult now to find a private landlord who will take someone on housing benefits (I know as I’ve been looking!). Social housing is woefully inadequate. We are facing a crisis.

People get told enough to pay rent. If they choose to spend it on fags and booze, evict them and let them reap the consequences. Only way they’ll learn as clearly explaining and education isn’t working.

It costs a fair bit to evict someone. What exactly on your opinion is the problem with paying the benefit directly to the landlord?

Because they are the ones who have to pay the court fees and bailiff fees. Many of them have mortgages. Why shouldn’t they receive the money directly? It then gives the renter a true reflection of their available capital and they can’t ‘accidently’ spend the rent because they’ve never had it.

*in not on

*renter

Note to self - don’t speed type and cook!

My problem with giving money to the landlord is the tenants will never learn to be responsible.

It was a moronic policy, even without considering the moral implications. I have no idea why it was ever introduced because it's so obviously unjust and ridiculous. Absolute gift to the headline writers and to people who are opposed to welfare reform. If I were in charge of trying to cut benefits spending in an equitable way, this sort of nonsense is the first thing I'd be trying to avoid. I am not a UC supporter at all, but I think I'd actually be quite fucked off with the Tories for this if I were.

Some people will never learn! They may well make decisions that are likely to impact on their kids and make them homeless. That’ll give a greater impact on councils, social services and children’s lives.
Their parents will still spend their money on drugs, alcohol and smokes.

@Pookiedo
I also had a tax credit overpayment of around £400. I was informed that they’d be passing it over to universal credit several months back and then had half of the debt taken out of last months UC payment. Which was a bit of a killer just before Christmas without any prior warning. Yes I know it’s money that I owed and which should be repaid. It would have been nice to have known it was coming at such a high rate though. That’s around 40% of our usual monthly payment.

That has made me want to go get some fags and booze to be honest. What joy will await me on the payment date? It’s like being on deal or no deal. Could be £300, could be 1p

@Zofloramummy

It is absolutely shit I agree
But as for being better off with rent - I am not, and I don’t think many are? I also have nothing to show for it. And can’t save up for a deposit for a mortgage as I am paying someone else’s mortgage for them.

When you are in work you only get a % of LHA, the rest you pay yourself. If UC fucks up you can still be evicted. There is no equity in private renting, no remortgage options nothing. It’s almost impossible to find a LL who will take even a small amount of benefit into consideration. I am paying someone else’s mortgage - and he profits on it, he is able to get better mortgage deals that he will never pass on to me.

Both situations have their own pitfalls just in different ways. I am sorry for what has happened and hope it is sorted out

One of my neighbours didn’t pay her rent for nearly 8 months and got evicted. She was housed nearby in a new build 8 weeks later but the price she paid for that was social services ending up involved and I cannot imagine it was in any way ‘worth it’ for her financially afterall

I completely understand pookie. I think it’s crap both ways.
I get nothing towards my housing so I’m effect I pay for my mortgage and what’s left pays for food, utilities etc.
If I rented I’d get a percentage (in my area approx £460) towards my housing so I’d be a fair bit better off monthly.
If I rented I’d have no asset at the end.
As I have a mortgage then I’ll have an asset eventually and if I ever need care the cost will come out of my house!!