Guide Camp

[MoanyMum12]

To think that £40 is a ridiculous amount of money for Guide camp?!
Two nights in a tent for £40...

Our district got shirty about adult uniform expenses even though we had the funds to cover it. Our district like to get its blue knickers in a twist though.

To keep costs down, our leaders pay a reduced contribution to costs, mainly for the food budget, but not the full rate. I'm surprised that a parent volunteer is being asked to pay full rate to make up the ratios.

The £40 for the girl is a reasonable cost. Our next indoor 2 nighter is £50, mainly for the hall cost.
Big organised camps cost more because the activities budgets tend to be more adventurous compared to individual units. There may also be hire costs for infrastructure such as marquee hire etc

In our Scout group our uniform is funded

The only time I charge for anything is if an adult is choosing to go rather than I need them for my ratios - as someone up thread already said we are also giving up (a lot of) our time voluntarily - I wouldn’t do it if I was also out of pocket.

About half way down page 1, the OP agrees she has been unreasonable after the types of costs incurred were explained. There is then absolutely no need to carry on ranting at her, all making similar points or going off on one about a personal hobby horse. If the OP had persisted in believing she was being reasonable that would be a different matter.

People post on here to ask things they can't in real life to get things straight in their heads. Surely it's far better to ask here than have a go at the guide leader?

Sorry... I didn’t meant to drip feed. I was frustrated about it and posting when I was tired.

I’ve spoken to the leader and said that although DD would like to go and I can pay for her, I can’t also afford to pay £40 for myself. Rather than offering for me not to pay she just guilted me by saying that if I don’t come then they won’t have enough adults for the camp!

As a dark side (beaver leader) yes YABU. BUT
I have never asked a parent to pay to help on an activity, even when we weren't technically short handed or under ratios. The extra hands make everyones life easier. I also wouldn't expect me leaders to be out of pocket either.

Suggest you ask if all the leaders are paying to attend. If they are then it's your choice whether you go or not. But certainly do not be blagged into paying to do them a favour.

Do they have a group leader you can query this with?

she just guilted me by saying that if I don’t come then they won’t have enough adults for the camp!

That would be her fault, not yours. Adult costs in our unit are always taken into account when organising a trip, and if she has failed to do that then she is responsible if the camp doesn't run.

Gosh are all those paying over £100 for winter camp going to gilwell? We're in the North East so they go to Hawkhirst and are paying £53 this year.

I'd never expect anyone to at the full price of a weekend away when you are giving up your time. I would say no and that you won't be guilt tripped into something you can't afford because she doesn't have enough adults to run. She should have thought this through before offering and costing it to include the adults.

If this was school event add another 0 this is very reasonable.

Just calmly tell her that you are more than happy to come and be a volunteer, but you won't be paying for the 'privilege'. Put the decision back on her. The troop covers the costs for volunteers, or you don't come.

Bargain. Absolute bargain.

My babysitter charged that for 4-5 hours provided I was back before 11pm. She didn’t have to provide a tent, pay a campsite, the activities, buy the stuff to keep them entertained, cook their meals spend 36 hours dealing with squabbles.

I doubt you will be able to provide the same to your kids for less if you attempt to replicate the experience yourself.

Just saw your last post. I would be tempted to say “call her buff and say that you are not going”, but then even if you were paying £80 for your child only, I would still be thinking it was a bargain. DS primary school charged almost £300 for a two night activity admittedly they stayed in something like a hostel but it was a fortune anyway.

But It won't cost £80 per child so that would be Taking the piss making a profit. I don't think you should be paying OP. If anything then a pound or two should be added to the child fee and spread it over the group.

As a (sadly EX) ASL (scouts) £40 for a weekend sounds pretty much par for the course.
Our Troop usually charged a couple of quid 'extra' which in theory is 'profit' but then it would be spent to subsidise other events. We were a particularly adventurous Troop. We were lucky that we could usually call on 3 or 4 adult helpers for the larger exploits as well as a few young leaders.
The amount of effort put in by leaders usually goes unrecognised by parents. For a weekend camp (say 9:00 on Saturday drop off to 5pm Sunday pick up), there would be 3 or 4 hours or more during the week prior, shopping, planning etc, then if it had been wet, another 2 or 3 hours sorting out wet tents and equipment during the days after.

{she just guilted me by saying that if I don’t come then they won’t have enough adults for the camp!}
I am puzzled by this as our Troop would not get into this sort of question but it should be realised that not all Troops/groups are the same.
The worst parents of all are those that consider any of these organisations to be a glorified 'child minder' service. Leaders put so much effort in, partly to have a good time themselves but more importantly enjoy enabling the youngsters to experience real life and learn about the world (once you have wrenched their phones out of their hands).

I'd just say you can't afford it and that's that unfortunately. See if she knows a more affluent parent she can badger ask?

just a quick thing...I assume you 've done your child protection course and have been vetted?
we don't allow any adult who hasn't done these (as a minimum) on a hike or camp.

I was also going to raise safeguarding and DBS check, certainly needed for an overnight trip.

I do think it’s a bit cheeky to expect a “volunteer” parent to pay their is. Way though, and actually the guide group should subsidise this by raising the cost to absorb it.

As for prep time - our Scout Group runs a night camp every summer - Arrive 6pm Friday, leave 2 pm (or whenever enough hands have pitched in to pack away) Sunday. (Beavers arrive 9 am Saturday, they only do one night).

This entails 5 or 6 adults/leaders taking the Friday off work to transport kit, buy food etc.

Then 5 or 6 people (usually the same ones) drying tents, fixing anything that got broken etc the filing week.

This is in addition to all the admin, chasing permission forms, medical forms, booking activities etc before hand.

OP says she has her checks. You do know that the vast majority of molesters etc will never be or have been convicted of anything? Not trying to breed paranoia here, just saying that have a clean check isn't really worth much, The overwhelming majority of people who work with our children or interact with them are just normal everyday people. Most people who are abused are so by a family member.

I think your Leader is in the wrong here, I also think you need a DBS in order to help overnight if it's to make up ratios.

There is nothing more satisfying about a great camping weekend than returning a 'knackered' child bubbling about what a great time they have had who is covered in mud, head to toe, climbing into their parents clean shiny car .

I have had the DBS checks done as I have helped on/off during weekly meetings and trips over the last few years when they need extra help. I've never done a camp or holiday so when they asked for help on that I didn't realise I would have to pay for it.

DD's Guide group hasn't started back yet since Christmas so I have exchanged a few texts with her Guide leader this morning. She said if I come I have to pay, but if I don't come they won't have enough adults and will cancel the camp. It feels like blackmail to me.

I am quite tempted to pull DD out of this Guide group and see if she can get a space in one of the other groups in the town where more of her friends are. I love Guides, Scouts, etc. and I think it is fantastic the amount of time the volunteers give up each week and the time away from their families, etc. But these leaders have never been welcoming, even though I have stood in to help them quite a few times at the very last minute meaning I have to drop my current plans so that they don't have to cancel their activities. I think being blackmailed might be the final straw!

That's not great OP. I think looking for another group seems to be the best idea sadly.

It’s not fair of her to threaten to cancel the camp if you don’t pay £40 to volunteer to go! I’m guessing you’re the only parent who already has the DBS check, which is required for overnights.

Just reiterate that you can’t afford to pay to volunteer. If that means camp can’t run then that’s a shame but that’s life. Maybe if it’s under threat another parent will step up to volunteer.

Moany I think you would have been much better having a thread asking whether it was right that you had been asked to pay £40 to be a parent helper at a Guide camp.

As you can see from the answers above £40 for a guide to go to a 2 night Guide camp is a good deal, £40 for a parent helper is definitely not.

It would be interesting to see whether the leaders are having to pay too. I would assume the leader has badly budgeted the costs for the camp.

I don't know anything about how Guide groups are run as DS is at Scouts and I am Treasurer for his Scout group, but do you have anything similar to a Group Scout Leader (so someone who is in charge of the local Rainbows/Brownies/Guides) you could go to to query whether you have to pay for this camp.

As Treasurer I do like to keep a tight rein on our funds, but I would not expect a parent volunteer, who is helping with adult ratios, to pay for a camp. As I have said in an earlier thread we do normally ask for a contribution towards food for parents who help out on camp, but those parents are there because they want to help (and join in the fun) not because we need them for ratios. Unless your group is in dire straits there should be enough money in the pot to cover your costs.

If the Group does need more funds, especially in respect of this camp, is there time to have some fundraising activities or contact local trust funds/groups who could give a donation towards the camp. Organisations like Rotary, Lions, Roundtable regularly give us donations, especially towards a particular thing, be it a big camp or large piece of equipment. Some of these donations can be as small as £50 but every little helps, as they say.

Agree with ineedaholiday. I also get the impression that if OP had been asked "nicely" for a contribution towards her food costs for the weekend then that might have been better received.